Hi there, I'm a follower of your blog and usually just read, don't comment. But I'm a bit confused on all of this. So these things about peaceful parenting are just "reported"? You don't know if they're true? I'm just really trying to understand the situation here, not bash anyone or take sides.
I think all we can do as parents is continue to grow and learn from our past mistakes, there are things I did with my daughter that I won't do with my next child (I've become more educated on breast feeding, vaccines, home birth, etc).

Where can I get more info on circumcision. I am due in 2 weeks, planning a CPM-attended home birth, don't know the sex. We are still deciding, but want more information on why not to do it. Because right now, the only reason would be because God told the Israelites back in the day....

Thanks! Love your blog!

It never fails to amaze me when I see stuff like this in communities that you would think would be extra supportive. I don't know anything about these other people so I won't comment on the issue at hand but I certainly can believe what you are saying because I see it all the time in local moms groups, on blogs, on forums, serious. Don't people have something better to do with their time than create drama and hound others to assert their dominance? These are important issues...I'm not saying they aren't...but none of these attacks are every *really* about the issue. The issues just become an excuse for little dictators to mark their territory.

Gina, I'm a lurker, but had to post to this. This is insane. Teaching is not about thrusting your opinions on others (as you know) Its about presenting the facts in an unbiased light and allowing one to make their own, educated decision. I'm sure you'll be a great teacher :-) As for the completely insane people harrassing you, they must realize that they will win no one to their cause with harrassment. They will only terrorize people and scare them away. It's not beneficial to anyone. Prayers with you for flood cleanup. My own personal mantra- I lead my life, not to live up to your expectations, but to exceed my own.
Blessings, Kristin

I hope that all intactivists are not being lumped into a category of people who personally attack or threaten others. I am very opposed to circumcision and feel it oversteps the bounds of parental decision-making (on a moral/ethical level, not a legal level), but I would never attack someone who felt differently or who had their child(ren) circumcised and then later reconsidered it. I will say that I can't picture Dr. Momma herself attacking someone, but I wasn't there to "see" what happened.

I am so sorry that you had to write this in the first place. :(

I think that your choices are your choices. I went into parenting being one of those "traditional" parents who formula fed, got the epidural, etc (though I did end up refusing the epidural for both labors). I'm glad that I'm older and wiser now, and I feel that parenting is a journey, not a destination (cliche, but true!). Last time I checked, people are not perfect. We make imperfect decisions, and if we are smart, we learn from our mistakes.

I'm sorry that people threatened you - that is not cool. I'm very surprised to hear the names floating around, however, as I'm subscribed to all of those mentioned on Facebook. Based on what I've read from them over the past 48 hours, I cannot see myself "liking" them anymore. It makes me sad, really - instead of really attempting to educate people and then leaving people to make their own decisions, they seem to want to force information down people's throats.

I guess you had to make a record of this, but I'm sorry you had to. Rise above it, baby.

I have never been anywhere near this site, for which I am thankful. Obviously, they are threatened by you and deeply believe they have the right to judge other parents. It must be nice to be perfect.

I know it's a little trite to use the old adage about drawing bees with honey instead of vinegar, but people react to positive messages better than they do to negative ones (we learned this years ago in Psych 101). If you tell someone they are XYZ for even CONSIDERING an option - they will immediately be turned off to your message. By spouting off about genital mutilation - you miss the opportunity to tell them the reasons why you don't think circumcision is the best option. I've had some AMAZING discussions with pro-intact ladies about the where the law should stand on the issue, and what should be recommended by government organizations like the AAP and CDC. By sharing opinions, we both learn more about the process, the ramifications to the individual, and to society.

They get a little crazy over there about the Circ stuff. I mean, I read their stuff mostly for the Anti-CIO and breastfeeding stuff, but they can be a little extreme.

I too formula fed my first, working on 15 months breastfeeding my second. I circ'd both my boys. I had an induced labor with my first as well (due to pre eclampsia though) but my second, despite gestational diabetes was allowed to go nearly a week overdue thanks to an awesome doctor, and I eneded up going naturally.

I like your blog because you describe yourself as a feminist, and I've had more than one arguments with others in the various attachment parenting communities and breastfeeding communities that you can't be AP or a lactivist and a feminist at the same time "because feminists are against breastfeeding". It is nice to see someone who thinks a little more like I do.

Kudos to you for not publishing your stuff online for your classes, you definately should not, because once it is out there, it is no longer in your control. Keep it up!

Hugs! I saw some stuff on FB and thought It was crazy anyone would be spreading such obvious lies about you! I have 2 girls so circumcision wasn't something I gave much thought to until recently. If I'd had a boy instead of girls I would have circumcised. I also had an epidural at w/my first & though going natural was crazy talk! That doesnt mean I can't change my mind as I become more educated about something! I had a perfect, beautiful natural birth & am now a doula & huge supporter of natural birth. That doesn't mean I force my opinions on my clients. I give them information and let them decide! I wish that a lot of intactivists out there could see that their methods do the opposite of what they want & put people off. There was recently discussion on circumcision on my FB page. I was thankful it stayed relatively calm bc I know some ladies who are over the top & in your face & sometimes cruel when it comes to circumcision. Anyhow...I'm sorry you are going thru this annoying situation. Whether or not your boys are circ'd is nobody's business! They are just jealous you are so awesome! Oh & I'm so sorry you are dealing with flooding! Extra hugs!

First of Gina, you are awesome and if people want to play out drama like this on the internet to attempt to ride the coattails of your success, unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done. That is their own problem and for people to do something like that it shows the lack of integrity in their blogging.
Second, Both of my sons are circumcised (not to self, now I am going to lose a ton of followers but I dont care) it is a choice my husband and I made together, and were influenced by mainstream society before *I* knew better. Does that mean when I start teaching childbirth education classes I am going to teach parents to do what I did? Nope, I am going to provide them with educational information on both sides and let THEM make the OWN choice. Like any GOOD educator would.
I wrote a post a few weeks ago about the extremists, mostly in the childbirth community, but it certainly could pertain to this issue also.
Third, you are totally taking the high road. These "women" if you want to call them that, are acting like the mean girls in high school. Plain and simple.
They are no better than "the man" that they rage on against by trying to back you into a corner. Of course they will never see that though.

You cannot make extremists listen to reason. It simply will never happen.

I love you, and I love your blog, and you are going to be a rockin' childbirth educator, and doula. Keep up the good work!

So sorry you have to deal with this. I hope this all stops immediately. But no matter what they say, people who love and care for you and read your bog know that this is not true. You are going to have so many people who are going to be interested in your classes, don't worry.

Don't those people have better things to do? They are so sad... I feel bad for them. Wasting their time meddling into other people's business just shows that they are the people with problems. It must be great to be so perfect and all-knowing ...

Do you know McKMama? She has/had to deal with awful stuff like this as well. Both of you have become very successful and people are just jealous.

And then there is the flood.... Can I help in any way?

Love,
Dagmar

(((GINA)))

Anyone who knows and/ or follows you knows where you stand on issues and it's just sad that you have had to come out and defend yourself against these comments. I am sure I am not the first, nor will I be the last, to say: If I have to choose between Team Gina and Team PP... I'm on Team Gina. But seriously, ladies, let's grow up, shall we?

Happy Garage Sale to you and Best of Luck in the Grand Opening!

I had been reading your tweets and wondering what was going on. All I can say is - it all sucks. Can't believe there are people in this world that make up and spread lies like that - really it is just cruel.

Sounds like you are handling it well. Stay strong, keep up the great work you are doing and know that we support you.

Hey Gina,

I'm sorry to hear that you have been attacked. It never feels good to feel like you have to *defend* yourself. I respect your rights as an educator, and I think that being an activist is great.
I made the mistake of circ'ing my 1st son, and know how it feels. I am now educated too, and would not make that decision again. However, I do agree that there is a point as parents where we have to realize that we make decisions for our own kids, and others make decisions for their kids. We cannot always agree with their decisions or like them, but we have to respect their rights as parents. And it sucks when activism becomes "terrorism" - there is nothing peaceful about judging others decisions. Each one of us can only take responsibility for the decisions we make. And we can only do so much with the information and support that we have.
I think that you have done just that, and then gone above and beyond what most parents do. You educated yourself and gained passion about important parenting issues. And it's great that you have chosen to share those with others. I support you 100% - even on days when I don't necessarily agree.
I love your passion and your sense of fairness. But I also love how bold you are and unapologetic about how you feel. You OWN what you believe in! And I think you rock!

I am tempted to say that all the rabid anti-circumcision people are anti-Semitic as well, since it is a part of traditional Jewish law. If they didn't let a little thing like facts, discretion, and decency stop them, why should it stop me? Oh yeah. I don't want to be a jackass.

But part of me would love it if they "had" to post about how they were not anti-Semitic.

Wonder if they would like it?

Sorry about all the drama. I don't think your sons' penises are any of their business.

We would have been in the same boat if my little guy hadn't been sick. When I was expecting a boy, we were planning on getting it done, after DH found something on the internet about penile cancer. Then our son was born with a heart disease requiring immediate surgery. No one mentioned circ-ing and I didn't ask, just assuming that being in the hospital for heart surgery was not the appropriate time for snipping a penis (though I have learned since that a lot of little boys do get it done while recovering from their heart surgeries :( )
At our first pediatrician appointment, I brought up that we still needed to get the circ done and he told me that he would not allow it until DS was at least one yr old and had been healthy for several months and that he hoped he could use that time to convince me not to do it. It worked out well that we were stalled enough for me to get educated more on the topic and realize it wasn't for us, although I would much rather he have an intact heart than an intact penis. I'm not going to go around pretending that my son's anatomy makes me an enlightened "intactivist"

I guess my point is just that its hard to have fully informed opinions on parenting topics without actually being a parent, especially those of us with unplanned pregnancies.

Gina,
You & I have had a thoughtful twitter "conversation" many months ago about circumcision, and your experience with it & feelings about it, and how complicated an issue it is, especially with having circ'd sons & husband. While we didn't agree completely, you were nothing but completely civil towards me, open with your feelings, honest about your past, and willing to hear out a perspective which differed from your own.
Which makes me all the more sad that people are attacking you.
Because regardless of what you chose for your sons, or what you might choose for a future son, I fully believe you are more than capable of being a compassionate, highly educated, aware, passionate, and mother-baby safety advocating doula.
For anyone to say otherwise hasn't had experience with that part of you. Which is unfortunate.
It's so easy to jump on someone who is passionate or outspoken. Not so easy really listen & treat with understanding.
Good luck with the birth educator/doula path you've chosen - I think its perfect for you!

Haters will be haters. They get especially flared up when someone is doing fantastically fabulous ;)

Sorry you had to experience this--never fun.

I was wondering WTF was going on... This is way too ridiculous. I feel bad you had to ACTUALLY defend your viewpoint! Many many vocal advocates/activists for birth/breastfeeding/parenting etc. got to where they are today by some actual mistakes, some raw experiences or tons of research! Any health professional ...and that includes educators, doulas etc... Have an ethical responsibility to present evidence based information to parents to make their educated choice!! TFB--You have been saying that FOREVER! Many things that happen to moms, babes families out there come from some uneducated decisions! I have to work with many families who:
ask flat out for inductions,
Some ask flat out for cesarean,
don't want to try a VBAC,
don't think about breastfeeding
and most all want a circumcision...
most of them don't even ask questions...and have never gotten formal information on the subjects!
TFB has been a strong voice to educate!
I hate when cyberworld throws a twisted wrench into the otherwise wonderful sharing network of information.
Get over your-selves people. Stop it. Stop the infectious contagious negativity. Do not engage! Leave TFB alone.

Personally, I don't think you should have had to "prove" your beliefs. (Again, Glenn Beck, look it up.) I'm sorry that this has caused you so much stress; I've not seen whatever went down on the PP site? Discussion boards? I don't know? It's funny - way back in the day, before your parenting days started (get off my lawn!) hipmama.com had message boards and shit was always going down and blowing up. And somehow I never, ever saw it. It has worked in my favor because I'm not very fond of taking sides. At the same time, PP (which apparently shouldn't be confused with Peaceful Parenting, Inc., which also has a FB page and seems like a nice, smart group of folks) has not published my comments at any point when I have had something contradictory to say. And quite frankly, not being open to discussion is something that I find disappointing.

The internet needs a moderator.

I think that activists and educators are two wholly separate entities. I think that it is fine for educators to be activists - but on their own time and not in the same time and space as their classroom. Obviously, you have issues that you hold dear to and have very strong views on and that you advocate for strongly. And then there are are others that you may just not focus on quite as much. And that's *okay.* And as an educator - especially for childbirth, which is one of the most personal and can be one of the most empowering situations for women - it's not your JOB to be an advocate, and quite frankly I have always found it off-putting to be paying money and sitting in a classroom with a teacher who has their own agenda, you know?

That's not to say that as an educator you can't make a compelling case for or against something, and the more thoughtful and compassionate your case, I believe, the more likely you are to find sympathetic ears.

As an advocate for breastfeeding, i can support the Baby Friendly Initiative. I can write in support of legislation. I can keep my eyes open for violations of the WHO code. I can write to local hospitals and encourage them to improve their lactation education and support. I can write to nursing journals and become an IBCLC. I can attend nurse-ins and protests. I can nurse in public and engage in thoughtful information with people who do not understand, or who disagree.

As an educator, I can provide the best information i have in the best way I know how, and then I can support women in their choices.

As a mother, and a friend, I can share my own stories.

As an advocate for normal birth, I can support the Mother Friendly initiative. I can promote the Birth Survey. I can write to local hospitals I know are not VBAC friendly. I can write to hospitals I know that have a high c-s rate and include copies of the maternal health reports from earlier this year. I can share my birth stories. I can support the Big Push for Midwives. I can get involved with ICAN. I can educate myself.

As an educator, I can provide my students with the most current and best information that I have and I can do it in the best way I know how. And then I have to step back, confident that I have facilitated the transfer of information, and I have to allow my students to make the choices that are the best for their family, without passing judgment even if I disagree.

As a mother and a friend and a writer, I can publish or share my own birth stories. I can thank my midwives as well as my OBs for the support that they gave me in my births. I can heap praise upon my OBs and the medical students that attended the twins' birth so that they know that the way they committed to informed consent and supported me in my desire to have a vaginal birth was appreciated and something they should do for other mothers. Hell, for every mother.

I truly believe that the most uphill battle is against circumcision, largely because it is an issue that is steeped in religion and tradition. There's no real financial gain such as you have with the formula industry or with fee-for-service medical situations or with "best practice" and actively managed births. And so because people are doing things "the way they've always been done" I feel it is the issue that needs to be treated with the lightest, most delicate of kid gloves. Plus, we are talking about PENISES, which hold so much power in our culture but are also involved with ew, gross, sexuality.

And so as an advocate against it, I call it circumcision. If I am writing to legislators or to medical professionals, I explain that I believe it to be MGM. But I believe in dismantling the master's house with his own tools, etc. I can write letters over and over and over again. I can protest.

As an educator, I can give information. Show videos, even. But I can't make that decision for the parents, and I think it is crucial not to guilt them.

I think what it comes down to, for me, is that when it comes to advocacy my passion can shine through. When it comes to education, my fucking brilliance can shine through - but more important is my ability to help someone find their own way. And in no case, ever, is it okay for me to act like I have the moral authority over someone else based on a choice that either of us make.

There is a whole OTHER conversation in there about why being a doula almost scares me a little bit.

Gina, I had my son circumcised as well. I was 18, a single mom and had absolutely no idea that there was even a choice or information to support not circing. I remember saying to the nurse who asked me, "I thought you just did that, I didn't even know you asked the parents!" I know way better now and I know that my son has to live with that for the rest of his life. My favorite quote in the world is by Maya Angelou and it's something like, "You do what you know how to do and when you know better, you do better." Thank you for what you are doing, there will be many more parents who at least have the knowledge to "know better" after they take your classes.
I'm sorry that you are being harassed about this and I hope that everything works out.

If nothing else, this post motivated me to do more research on the intactivist issue and convinced me that if I ever have a boy he won't be circumcised. Before that I couldn't care less about the issue.

Gina, Big hugs to you. I am sorry that they are judging you like this.
As a mom who did circumcise her 3 boys, because I didn't do the research and was not educated about it, I feel for you.
I just told my DH sitting next to me, "You are aware if we ever have another boy, he will NOT be circumsized." "Mmm hmm, I know." was his response. I wish I knew then what I know now. I would have made a different choice.
I will say that I educate moms about this topic and I encourage them to really research and hope they choose not to do a cosmetic surgery on their days old baby.
However, it is their choice and my role is not to judge, but to teach.
Hugs, hugs, hugs.
Sheridan

Wow, that's a whole lot of tool-ness you're dealing with. I seriously just do not/cannot understand why people make up lies like that. What is the point??

And, for what it's worth, I enjoy learning the most from people who have gone through something and say, "Yeah, I was wrong - what I've found out now is that *this* is the right way." You have a lot to offer your clients and if people have to try and eff that up, karma's headed their way.

I don't generally follow circ posts because I don't have sons but I'm pretty surprised by this. That really sucks and for as much as I appreciate a number of Dr Momma's articles I am extremely disappointed by her behaviour towards you. I hope she apologizes. If I ever had to choose I'd choose you in a heartbeat!

just gonna go out on a limb here and say these peacefully parented boys of crazy mean moms aren't gonna care about their foreskin much when they realize they weren't raised with any knowledge of how to be a decent human being.

This is what I don't get when moms are so mean to each other over these issues. What are we teaching our kids? Yes, birth and breastfeeding and foreskins are important. Really important.

But so are relationships (1000x more). And knowing how to handle conflict and opposing opinions while being respectful. And maintaining your convictions without being self-righteous. If you can't teach your kids that by your example, they're gonna suck at life anyway.

wow - crappy all the way around. i follow peaceful parenting, but in the "take it or leave it" sense - like i'll leave that awful article about not leaving your kid's side till they're 3 (WTF?).

kudos to you for confronting it head-on. sorry it seems like they still have shitty things to say about you.

-another mother who (regretfully) circ'ed

For what it's worth, I remember MONTHS ago someone asked you about your stance on circumcision and you answered it taking the same exact stance that you are having to reiterate now.

I like a lot of the articles on that site, but I'm not on FB so I miss a lot of the mommy drama :)

They kind of lost me when they said that we know Jesus wasn't really cut because that's not the way the Europeans painted his little baby penis, though. I mean, really? They also painted him with blue eyes and blonde hair, but we know that wasn't right...so what does any painter know about the appearance of Jesus'...you know what..

A friend of mine is about to have a baby boy, and although I have sent her some very good anti-circ articles, in the end it's her decision (actually she left it up to her husband) and it is just not my place to confront her about it and try to change her mind. All we can do is give people the information and let them make their own decisions.

And what does she know about you anyway? Reminds me of the crap that people say about my religion (one of Jehovah's Witnesses). I mean, really. There is so much misinformation out there and the only way to find out what someone really thinks or believes is to ask them.

Fuck 'em.

You can't please people like that no matter what you do. If they weren't pissed off that you circumcised your kids, they'd be pissed off that you work outside your home. If they aren't pissed off about that, you'd be criticized because you don't cosleep. Seriously, sites like that give the impression that if you aren't 100% "crunchy" then you are wrong.

Gina, I'm so sorry this nonsense has been brought upon you by those with such closed minds/limited grasps of logic. It's really sad that it degenerated into name calling and false accusations and you feeling forced to defend yourself against something so ridiculous.

Sending you "colours and light", as my friends say (i.e., good vibes). Keep on bringin' us the good stuff. And take care of yourself!

Jana

(Okay, I kept poking, and there are some pretty decent bloggers on that site saying some pretty good stuff...it's just that it's mixed with some OTHER stuff...)

Sigh.

Hang in there.
--Jenn

Okay wow, Peaceful Parenting is also the source of that god-awful "Mothers need to be with their babies every second of their first three years of life" article...( http://www.drmomma.org/2010/07/mother-toddler-separation.html ) I find it fascinating (read: sorta sick and dismaying) that a blog so in favor of having male babies treated with the same consideration as female ones is NOT in favor of having male parents given the same respect and belief in their ability to parent as the female parent...

That whole site, which I had not encountered before, makes me feel sort of...icky. (what's the opposite of "squee"?)

Gina, some people's recommendations and endorsements you do not need. And please do not feel the terrorists won by your post: speaking the truth without shame is never a defeat.

peace,
Jenn
w

How Awful!
I subscribe to both of those blogs for the occasional interesting post, but maybe I should reevaluate the company I keep! I hope an apology is forthcoming. Hang in there! Signed, Mother of 2 intact boys (13 yrs & 2 mos) and 2 girls all who were EBF for 6 mos and BF for 1-2 yrs each with NIPs on demand.
lol, whew, now does that qualify me to opine?!

So you're saying that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in the 1990s, then, is what you're saying?