January 11th, 2010
Mominatrix Says: “Consider yourself lucky, you c-section bitches.”
I waited for this book. I was excited about this book. I ordered it from Amazon in the first week it was published. I couldn’t wait to devour it, have an expected good chuckle, and praise it all over my site.
Then – I read it.
Let me be clear here: I really like this author. Kristen Chase helped me a lot in the beginning of my blogging days, and what I’m going to write next pains me a great deal. I wrote Kristen privately on facebook and asked her to be interviewed on my blog about some of the statements she made in this book, but she’s a busy girl and really wasn’t interested. So I’m going to have to try on my own to be as fair as I can about a book that made my VBACtivist blood boil.
I thought we had enough mainstream mommy authors giving us really uneducated advice about the supposed magical powers of epidurals and cesareans, but apparently there is room for one more. I know Mominatrix thought she was being funny and clever when telling pregnant women to “save your cash for more useful items, like an epidural” but as a natural birth advocate, I find that statement highly problematic. Actually, as a feminist I find that statement highly problematic. Why must authors assume that their readers cannot handle labor, and suggest they save up for drugs before they even feel the first contraction? Are we not selling our sisters a little short?
But it’s a flippant book, Gina! What’s the harm?
Well, I’ve got a nice sized uterine scar on my belly right now thanks in part to a flippant mommy advice book like this one. When I first found myself pregnant, I was just like the vast majority of pregnant American women who never get truly informed about the birth process, and instead spend their pregnancies watching “A Baby Story” and reading Jenny McCarthy books. I got my hands on “The Girlfriend’s Guide to Pregnancy” by Vicki Iovine, which told me that Lamaze was useless, as were all other birthing classes, and what I really needed to focus on was how quickly I could get the epidural.
Yeah – I got the epidural. The epidural that only went down half my body, that caused me uncontrollable shaking, that shut down my labor, that necessitated more pitocin, which put my baby in distress, which then necessitated a nice, traumatic cesarean surgery. Yep. That epidural. I’m so glad I saved my money for that epidural, instead of a birth class which would have informed me of the potential risks to my epidural decision.
Not everyone has my experience though. Obviously Mominatrix didn’t. But far, far too many women DO have that experience, and it is just one of the contributing factors to a major cesarean epidemic in this country.
But Mominatrix doesn’t seem to think that a cesarean is such a bad thing because, according to her, a cesarean means a baby didn’t come through your vagina and wreck it. She complains that birth causes irreparable damage to the vagina and
“Quite frankly, women who have not had a vaginal birth will probably not experience as much of a change as those who have shot a baby or two out of their vag. Consider yourselves lucky, you c-section bitches.”
She also says,
“It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you’ve birthed a few seven or eight pounders your vagina will not return to its trim and virginal state without some effort. And even then, it still might be somewhat of a lost cause.”
I would like to let unsuspecting mothers know that I’ve birthed a nearly 10 lb baby, and my vagina is just fine. Actually, my husband calls it “perfect” (on the internet, even!), and I feel sorry for any woman who’s married to a man who expects his wife’s vagina to look “virginal.” Marry better, ladies. I’m sure he doesn’t look the same as you met him either, and you’re not requiring penis surgery over it.
I tell you what really ruined my libido and my self esteem for a really long time were the debilitating, bleeding, excruciating, almost-required-another-surgery-to-fix hemorrhoids I suffered through after my cesarean, which were caused by the way they piled all my intestines back in my body (that’s right, did you know they pull all your insides out of your abdomen during a cesarean?) Now THAT is sexy.
You know what DOES cause damaged vaginas though? Episiotomies, poor birthing positions (like the flat-on-back position so many ignorant medpros push women into), purple pushing (pushing when told to, instead of when your body wants to), and many other avoidable, outdated obstetric practices.
What I want people to get out of this is the understanding that these birth interventions so flippantly recommended in this book come with real risks, and real consequences that should never be left out of the conversation. No, you should NOT be getting your birthing advice from a funny, tongue-in-cheek Mommy sex advice book – but that also begs the question why it’s there to begin with.
I can only hope that the women who read those types of problematic statements are also smart enough to pick up a copy of Birthing from Within
Have you read ? Will you? What do you think about the statements made? Talk to me…
**I cannot express this enough, so let me reiterate: I have nothing against Kristen Chase, her blog, or her work. I hope you (and she) understand that this article was not meant as any personal attack on her, but merely a rebuttal of the problematic statements made in her book. I encourage you to be respectful in your comments. Let’s debate the issue and the sentiments, and not the author herself.
UPDATE: I hoped that Mominatrix would see the pain she caused and offer mothers a heartfelt apology, but instead, she went on her radio show and made the typical “you-have-a-healthy-baby-so-get-over-it” comments, which of course discounts the many women who suffer serious physical & emotional trauma from their cesareans, or epidural-complicated births. Stay strong ladies, many of us DO care about your experience. You are not alone.
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I finally decided to write a comment on your blog. I just wanted to say good job. I really enjoy reading your posts.
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I am so sick of the “c-section saves your vagina” statements.
I don’t know about you, but sex after my c-section wasn’t all roses. It caused adhesions which made certain positions hurt–something my VBAC seemed to fix, thankyouverymuch.
I don’t know much about Kristen–has she had a c-section?
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@Michelle – no, no cesareans for Kristen. 3 Vaginal births (I’m guessing with an epidural.)
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Okay I’m gonna be a little TMI here… but I actually enjoy sex more since I have birthed a baby out of my vagina! Is that strange?? I dont think it ruined my vagina at all, I think it made it better!
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Well, what the hell is she talking about then? She has NO IDEA.
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@Toni, I totally agree! It has’t been this good in years. For me, the c/s not only screwed me up physically, but emotionally. It took me a long time to feel like a sexual being again.
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Very well stated. I, too, love her and am interested in reading her book… for the sex stuff. I don’t even understand why the epidural/c-section talk came into play in such a book, but I think you make some very valid points.
I also had a very… casual approach to labor and birth before getting pregnant and the first few months of my pregnancy. I read books like Girlfriend’s Guide and listened to lots of other women and MEN tell me to “not even bother” with breathing techniques or natural pain management. I didn’t see the big deal with asking for an epi right off the bat if that’s what I felt I needed.
But something started to happen as my pregnancy progressed. I was getting pretty sick and effing tired of middle aged men (OBs, dads, even those with no children) presuming to know what I was about to go through and what I could and couldn’t handle What worked in my favor is my strong desire to fight authority and do things people think/say I can’t do.
I began researching med-free birth and switched to a midwife practice at 6 months pregnant. I took a Bradley class my last trimester, and all of the sudden I morphed into an empowered woman who CARED about what was going to happen the day I gave birth to my son. I went from apathetic to inspired and excited. I’m so glad that came over me before it was too late, before I had a poor birth experience.
I agree those are dangerous statements to make, and the only way to counter them is with education and empowerment. Great job, Gina.
Jill @BabyRabies´s last blog ..Am I a slacker or just in need of a digital solution? 
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Here, here! I’ve had two natural births, but before my first I read “Girlfriend’s Guide” too. Thank goodness for my amazing midwife, Bradley teacher, and good role models or I would have gone the same way. Now I’m a Bradley teacher – hoping for the best with every student’s birth.
BTW Another fantastic natural birth book: Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth.
Meg´s last blog ..Birth Story
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I read the author’s blog, and have found it humorous and entertaining many times.
That being said, I find it irresponsible to add to the culture of medical birthing yet another book that prevents women from a safe, intervention free birth. I know it’s supposed to be ‘just for fun,’ but how fun is a c-section? I was fortunate enough to experience a vaginal birth, but I *was* induced for no medically sound reason. I did have an epidural, as well as a failed attempt at vacuum extraction that marred my newborns head.
It’s a shame that women are still encouraging one another to forgo a natural birthing experience. Next time, I’ll save MY money for a doula. And I won’t be buying this book.
PS I agree with previous poster–sex post-vaginal birth is FANTASTIC.
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Oh! And I will add that my husband has noticed no difference at all (that is what he SWEARS up and down), and my vagina actually feels tighter since having a baby. Maybe my midwife hooked me up with an extra stitch or two after I tore naturally ; )
Jill @BabyRabies´s last blog ..Am I a slacker or just in need of a digital solution?
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I’ve had 2 completely different births. The first, I was induced, but refused all pain med. I knew when it wad time to push & I could actually figure out what I was doing. The twins were another story. My OB said if we were attempting a vaginal birth, I had to have an epi. I wanted to avoid a c-section (it was actually my biggest fear when I found out I was carrying twins) so I agreed. I was 6-7cm when I got it & I was high from then on out. The twins were born 2hrs later, but I did the shaking thing too. I was also completely clueless that I needed to push or when I was having a contraction. I would never recommend an epi to anyone. I still cringe when I think of the needle in my back too. Luckily, I pushed both babies out within 15min & baby b was breech.
As for “a perfect vagina,” mine’s more virginal now than it was before kids.
Crysi´s last blog ..6 months
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If only women knew it didn’t have to be c-section, epidural, or horrifying misery. I always try to tell my pleasant birth story when the horror stories are being shared, but nearly always get dismissed. I wish I knew a way counteract this cultural expectation of misery, but it is pretty solidly entrenched.
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Oh and also, 9#1 and 10#6 vaginal births have not affected my sex life in any negative way at all. Women’s bodies are made to make, grow, birth, and make more babies. If our vaginas were useless for sex after birth, the human race never would have made it.
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Epidurals used to freak me out simply due to the fact it was a drug–as well as a needle in your back.
Now it scares me for another reason. A simple reason, actually. The ability to MOVE.
Birth #1, I was induced. Though I wanted to go med-free at first, I got the epidural at 4 cm. I stayed at 4 cm, and ended in a c-section. I HATED the way the epi made me feel, I couldn’t move–I felt trapped. I felt I needed to move around in labor (my son was OP) but I couldn’t. I hated the shaking too.
Birth #2–homebirth. I was in so much pain, and yes, if I was at the hospital, I KNOW 100% I would have opted for the epidural. I am so glad I wasn’t bedridden at the hospital though–we had a shoulder dystocia, and it was crucial that I was able to move around freely while we tried to get my daughter out. I was moving around like crazy–all fours (Gaskin), McRoberts, etc etc. That would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible if I would have had an epidural.
If there is a next time, I will not get the epidural simply because I want control of my body during labor.
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Totally, FB’s vagina has had no negative impact from VBAC. I’m am serious when I say it is perfect. I love it.
Aside from the epidural & c-section talk, that book is full of boat-loads of crap which will be discussed in my review which I’m currently working on. It will be colorful to say the least. Anyone with a shred of sexual experience will be unimpressed by the book.
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How frustrating! I really do not think that promulgating fear of birth does anyone any favours. I did not enjoy pregnancy or birth, I’ll admit it. But I laboured twice with no pain meds and I would do it again. Not my idea of a fun afternoon, but definitely NOT the excruciating, unbearable experience we’ve been led to believe by popular culture. And I also did not have after-effects that I noticed, or that my husband has noticed. No tearing, no (permanent) stretching, it all bounced back just fine.
@Toni – I had the same experience. Birth did not ruin sex for me, in fact I would say my feelings are the contrary.
Amber´s last blog ..Wish I Were There
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C-Sections are SO awesome that they killed my sex life. Yup! You heard it right! I had an awesome sex life BEFORE the adhesion’s I suffered from my c-section.
Not only have they made sex near impossible, but incredibly painful, which in turn has taken a toll on my marriage.
So go right ahead, sign up for that c-section to save that vagina!
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Bravo! My first gyno was a man, and as he broke my water during my first delivery, I let out a yelp. He proceeded to ask what I was planning on using for pain. I told him I wanted to go natural. He rolled his eyes, and said “Good luck” as hewalked out. That scared me out of my mind so I opted for an epidural, a decision I kind of regret. So I commend you for this review.
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Wow. Gross. I’m so glad I never read any books like that when I first got pregnant. I’d already been a member of the pregnant community on LJ, and there are a lot of birth activists (very loud ones, at that!) there who are very quick to explain exactly what is up with birth and where to go as good resources. I’m so greatful for those women and then blogs like this that let me truly be educated!
I had an all-natural birth in a hospital, with a midwife (mostly in the water) and she was fabulous- though she did ask me to push when I didn’t feel the need anymore (baby was posterior so i could only push twice & then done, everything was weird and irregular but she was trying to get me to do it normally)- but all i said was “Nope, I’m done for now.* or “NO I WILL DIE” depending. She didn’t push it on any given contraction but i did have to tell her No, simply, a few times.
Though i also started pushing before i told her because i didn’t want her to give me crap about not pushing if i needed to. I dont know if she would, but i’d read enough stories on the internet to feel that “HELLS if someone’s going to try to tell me not to push!”
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I just love this post, TFB. Respectful critique with a big ol’ heap of respect for all women out there who have had, will have, may have, and may never even have the chance to push a baby out of their vaginas.
What I also find problematic about Chase’s statements (at least as you’ve quoted them here) is that she seems to suggest that 1) tight and trim (?) “vag’s” are the center of the sexual-pleasure universe for women (and men) and that 2) c-sections prevent any and all sexual discomfort that can result from being pregnant and/or giving birth. IT AIN’T TRUE, BITCHES!
Besides the fact that sex just FELT better after my VBAC (yes, BETTER), I should also add that my confidence about my body was sky-high after my VBAC. And there’s nothing like being confident about one’s body (and about one’s vagina–ha!) to make sex great, am I right?
Kristen´s last blog ..#19a: Taking the kids on more sled rides
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I am so tired of the women are wusses who can’t handle birth without being saved by drugs. Add in the birth ruins vaginas nonsense and you have some massive misogyny, imo. My cesarean wrecked my sex life & my VBACs saved it. My husband is much happier with things now, too.
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I was waiting for the women-are-wusses-if-they-get-an-epidural comment.
It’s just as obnoxious as “consider yourself lucky, c-section bitches”.
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@Michelle – no, I think what Lisa meant was that she’s tired of all women considered being such wusses that we all NEED the epidural. I had to reread that a couple time too. I think it was just the lack of hyphenation in the statement. At least that’s how I read it?
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@feminstbreeder I went back and read it and I see what you mean.
To Lisa: If I read it wrong, I am sorry! If not, well, my comment stands as is. 
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Great post!! I think you were very respectful to the author of this book while voicing your own opinion and your own experiences. I hope moms-to-be read this and it opens their eyes to all of the harmful literature (and harmful obstetric practices) out there.
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AWESOME post!!
I had a natural birth, labial tear which did not require stitches, and everything is fine down there. Sex after baby is WAY better than before! In case you think I’m making this up, lets just say I was never a multi-o lady until after I pushed a baby out. Dunno what changed but I like it! I know my bajingo–I know what it looked/felt like before, and I know what it looks/feels like now. There are some visual changes just because of the labial tear, but everything feels just the same down there. Also, I was fine to have sex four weeks post partum because everything heals up faster when you let those natural birth chemicals get to work!
Compare and contrast with some my friends, who tried to discourage me from natural birth. One had an epidural, an incorrectly placed catheter, & an unneccessary catheter. It was the most horrible experience of her life, and 5 years later she still has pain during sex. Another friend had an epidural, an episiotomy, and a vacuum extraction–awful experience for her, too. A third friend very nearly ended up with a csection because of her epidural. Another friend did end up with an ‘emergency’ csection. Needless to say, their stories only made me stronger in my commitment to natural birth!
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You know what ‘ruined’ my body? Not a vaginal birth but two c/sections! My stomach looks like a deflated balloon with a pouch of fat at the scar line (and no I’m not over weight nor did I gain a lot of weight.) It was the sloppy piecing together they did afterwards. I didn’t have an episiotomy so everything “snapped” back as my husband said.
Erykah´s last blog ..Hair Challenge – Two months later
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I think anyone who has had a less than “okay” cesarean birth experience would take offense to that comment. And it especially is insulting coming from someone has never experienced a c-section. Hopefully that’s not being mean, I’ll play nice.
I had a VBAC 3 months ago and my husband does not feel like he’s throwing a hot dog down a hallway when we have sex. Quite the contrary! I did have some labia abrasions but that was a walk in the park compared to my c-section, not to mention the emotional scars it left. God gave us vaginas for 2 reasons: to make babies and to birth them.
Andrea Owen´s last blog ..It’s time for a change
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Well, I’m not a feminist or an activist or whatnot, but I’m soooo glad I just read this blog post, as you are correct, the whole “c-section is amazing” mentality just oozes from pregnancy websites. I’m a new mom-to-be, and the information out there is confusing.
So thanks for a strong contrary opinion so I at least know the voice is out there.
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Thank you for this review. I appreciate the tone you struck, which quite frankly could have been a lot harsher considering her handling of the subject matter (no matter how tongue in cheek). Personally, I do find the statement about c-section women counting themselves lucky to be extremely insensitive considering all the women who are left feeling deeply traumatized over it. Also, while women in general are probably smart enough NOT to take birthing advice from a book of this subject matter, ignorant, baseless rhetoric, such as what she is promoting, spreads like a virus. It attaches itself to the sub-conscience mind and fester there! The next thing you know, it’s spouted from the mouths of this most sane women like gospel: Didn’t you know, vaginal delivery stretches your vagina so bad you can never have orgasims!
I would like to also add, I’ve birthed 3boys, 8lbs 8oz, 7lbs 6oz, and the last a nice healthy 9lb 3oz and not only is my vagina not ruined, I’ve experienced, both during my pregnancies and within a few months after birthing, some of the best sex and orgasims of my life.
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Greetings Feminist Breeder readers (ha, that kind of rhymed!):
Gina and I discussed her concerns via a Facebook message exchange, and I appreciate her discussion about my book – as I too feel very strongly about maternal issues myself, seeing as I’ve had three doula-assisted unmedicated hospital births, two of which were attended by midwives.
However, that’s not everyone’s experience, and given that it’s a book about sex, my focus was to address the issues of all moms, regardless of their choices.
The Mominatrix persona is indeed smartass, flip, and tongue in cheek.
As Gina mentioned, you’ll see the one remark in regards to an epidural, as well as the few c-section references you saw above, plus some product recommendations for moms who have had c-sections and are having pain during sex.
But you’ll also find recommendations for sexy nursing bras and nursing pillows (which double as sex pillows – fyi!), as well as a zillion other great helpful hints that help moms reclaim their libidos and spice up their love life.
My aim in writing this book was to support all moms in their postpartum sexual health, not to make judgments or recommendations about any choices they may or may not make (or have made) in the delivery room.
Perhaps Gina will pass her copy around (if she hasn’t burned it yet – HA!) or you can grab it yourself, and take a read. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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@Mominatrix – I’m so glad you stopped by. Thanks for offering your side of the story.
I have a couple of follow up questions though: If you, yourself had 3 unmedicated births, I’m wondering why you’d even mention an epidural as something that was “useful” and needed to be “saved up for?” I was so happy to see you debunk the stretchmark cream theory, but seeing you instead tell women to buy epidurals really ruined that chapter for me. As a mom whose never used one, maybe instead you could have left out the drug entirely, and instead said to save up for something that has no serious risks involved.
Also, of course my readers have wondered why you’d assume that cesarean mothers have tighter vaginas, and I’d also wonder the same. Why do you think that? Did somebody tell you that? Or do you assume it? The thing is, it’s just not true. Of course, you’d have to have experienced a cesarean to KNOW that’s not true, therefore it’s a little dangerous selling them to pregnant, unsuspecting (and I’ll add desperate) women as a cure for flabby vagina. Cesarean mothers (at least not the ones here) really disagree with you on that, and considering the benefit of experience is on their side, maybe you could think about that the next time you insist we’re so “lucky.”
I’m sorry those types of comments had to be made in your book, because I can see they’re going to put off a lot of women (the kind I know anyway) to what could have been a fun read. I’m just bummed out and disappointed. That’s all. And I hope that doesn’t come across as sour grapes. I still respect your writing, and think you can be a great support for mothers.
Best, Gina
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“my focus was to address the issues of all moms, regardless of their choices.”
The blatant problem with this statement is you are considering major surgery as a CHOICE.
Getting an epidural or not is a choice. Using a midwife or OB is a choice. Hospital or home is a choice. Having your stomach cut open and your insides placed or your chest while they “investigate” your organs isn’t a choice. C-sections are not a choice and never should be. There is a reason that the World Health is looking to LOWER the c/s rate in countries through out the world…
Its one thing to be a smart ass but its another thing to have a blatant disregard for the c/s epidemic in this country that so many women are fighting for. Are you aware of the medical, legal and physical ramifications of c/s? Dropped from insurance if you don’t get your tubes tied after having 2 or 3 c/s… Forced to have a c/s when there is no medical reason to have one besides Doctor liability… And do I really need to go into the physical ramifications both immediate and later on?
You have an obligation to be correct when you write a “self-help” book, don’t you agree? And obviously, your comment is both medically and socially inaccurate and irresponsible.
Erykah´s last blog ..Hair Challenge – Two months later
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Sorry, I was typing around a sleeping baby. Yes, I meant I’m tired of all women being considered such wusses that we all need an epidural. Would I have liked one during transition when I was screaming at my husband to kill me? Sure. Did I need one? Clearly not, 1/2 an hour later my baby was here & I was fine. Except for those darn after pains, labour was nearly painless compared to those.
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I would like to add to the chorus of lovely women above who say their sex lives have IMPROVED after vaginal birth. It was surprising to me, but utterly true. As a matter of fact, it was ONLY after a very long vaginal birth (of an 8-lb baby), that I began to have vaginal orgasms during sex. Something I had figured wasn’t possible for me, never having had one in the decade of sex before childbirth. And now they are the norm! If that isn’t reason alone to squeeze a baby out the intended hole…I can hardly think of one.
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HURRAH, HALLELUJAH, TESTIFY.
I’m so glad you took this on – and even gladder to see her thoughtful response here. I know the book is supposed to be glib and sardonically funny, which I really do love as an overall approach to life, but I really agree with Gina and the fellow commenters here about the problems inherent in exalting c-sections (and epidurals and the like). Most of my own points have been made and then some, but just wanted to remark on this in particular:
“It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you’ve birthed a few seven or eight pounders your vagina will not return to its trim and virginal state without some effort. And even then, it still might be somewhat of a lost cause.”
There was actually a study done (cited in “Pushed” by Jennifer Block) comparing the perineal health, including incontinence and overall tone, of women who had given birth vaginally without complication – with a group of NUNS. Not only had they never given birth, they had never even had SEX. GUESS WHAT? No difference.
And thank you for calling out “Belly Laughs” and “The Girlfriend’s Guide”. They make me rend my garments. And yo Gina, if you REALLY want to raise your blood pressure? Check out “Knocked Up” by Rebecca Eckler. It makes Vicki Iovine look like Ina May.
And cheers to Mominatrix – I’m new to you, but you really do seem like my kinda broad in general!
Dou-la-la´s last blog ..Weekend Movies: Multiple Organisms
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“Quite frankly, women who have not had a vaginal birth will probably not experience as much of a change as those who have shot a baby or two out of their vag.
…It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you’ve birthed a few seven or eight pounders your vagina will not return to its trim and virginal state without some effort. And even then, it still might be somewhat of a lost cause.”
“probably not?”
“might be?”
Why is this person writing about birth? I guess anyone with a baby is qualified to dole out medical info, which seems to be based on stuff she’s heard and not any actual medical info.
“shot a baby or two out of their vag?”
This is just odd. She sounds like a teenage boy, one who knows nothing about birth, and I feel like boys actually might take a more respectful attitude.
To each her own, but I feel bad for anyone who falls for her scare tactics.
My “vag” feels exactly the same, thanks!
But with “probably not” or “might be” as qualifiers, I guess she’s qualified to talk about everyone else’s loose, unvirginal vaginas. Loose, floppy vaginas. Yup, that “probably” “might be” what we have.
FC Mom´s last blog ..Structure in the Classroom… and at Home?
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Gina,
Just want to say thank you for the book review and comment, and Mominatix thank you also for the follow up.
FWIW, I wanted to chime in and say that like so many others that responded, my c/sec ruined my sex life (not ONE orgasm between c/sec and VBAC)…I faked them all. It was excruciatingly tiring just trying to get almost there. Since the VBAC…unbelievably easy to orgasm, more so than even before the c/sec. Hubby has no complaints either.
As for being stretched (TMI ALERT)…only the opening seems to be a bit larger than before, and that actually helps things as I get a lot fewer hairs pulled, kwim?
Erykah – I do think c/sec choice should be an option, but I think the women who choose it, regardless of the reason, should be given forms stating all the risks (and emphasizing the risks), similar to what VBAC women are given now for VBACs. Fair is fair…I want to be able to choose VBAC, some women want to choose c/sec. Some women don’t want to choose c/sec but do so for some compelling reason (breech presentation…c/sec is not necessary but can be prudent, prior rupture, prior sexual abuse, etc.) Anyhow, I wanted to put this out there b/c I used to think it shouldn’t be a choice, but I have come to understand a few reasons why someone might choose one other than the too posh to push reason.
And I totally agree with the poster who said the after pains (for days no less) were much worse than labor pains. My home labor and delivery was 47.5 hours from water breaking to the birth, and while by no means painless I never felt like I couldn’t handle it. The after pains (esp during nursing) made me feel like I wanted the epidural then (j/k…I have a silly fear of needles in my spine…but I did consider ibuprofin at one point).
Cheers!
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Add me to the sex is way better after two vaginal births. Also, I think learning to do kegels during pregnancy taught me all about the inside of my vagina and the power she harnesses (bwa-ha-ha), which imo is way more important that the size of the opening.
Dear hubby has no complaints ;-P
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I had to have an emergency C-Section and nothing has been the same since. I can’t even look at myself naked anymore, which as you can imagine has a horrible effect on my sex life. Even if my body wasn’t scarred, I’m still scarred mentally. Sex actually makes me nervous now because I fear I’ll get pregnant and have to go through that again. BTW, the “emergency” came after being induced twice with no response, a week before my due date. So avoidable.
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It took me about 18 years to have self confidence and like my body, and those feelings are shot to hell now after my c section. Our sex life sucks. We don’t have it enough, and when we do I have a hard time having an orgasm, I really have to work hard to just get in the mindset. I am not comfortable being on top, I feel exposed, and I don’t have the confidence I need to let go and enjoy. And I know those feelings transfer to my husband. Random sharp pains are good mood killers as well. And the days of cramping, not during my period but worse than my period, certainly don’t help either. It’s been 19 months, I can only assume those pains are permanent. Oh, yes, I am a lucky bitch.
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No, I wouldn’t read it, not after the quotes you gave.
Even just joking around about women’s sex lives not being the same after a vaginal birth can actually impact expectant mom’s thoughts. I’ve seen women mention wanting to have a c-section because they don’t want to be ruined “down there”. As long as people continue to say things that make expectant moms think that their bodies will be ruined from a vaginal birth, that mentality will still run prevalent.
Morgan´s last blog ..Things I Wish I had Known Before My First C-Section
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As a c-section bitch, I may not have experienced much of a change in my vagina, but I certainly have experienced other changes that really fucking suck. My scar, our should I say, my FOUR scars, the loss of feeling from my belly button to my pubic bone, the emotional scars that run very deep, wondering how the c-sections have affected my children … seriously, I could go on and on.
These comments are so disappointing. Good lord, I’d never even heard of the ‘c-section to preserve your vagina’ argument. What’s next?
FamilyNature´s last blog ..Resolutions, A Little More Defined
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Great post. I wish I had time to read all the comments…
Your first pregnancy and birth experience sounds very similar to mine. I actually took the Girlfriend’s Guide to Pregnancy pretty seriously. When they said, “Go the normal route (meaning an epidural in a hospital) for your first birth, and if need be, change it up the next time,” it actually made sense. It sounded so good to me! I didn’t have to think about birth because pregnancy itself was completely overwhelming. But I regret not really thinking about it. Because I ended up with a C-section that I didn’t want after an induction that I didn’t want, either.
I understand that these books aren’t meant to be taken seriously, but they are. More women out there will get their hands on a Girlfriend/Mominatrix book than they will on a Your Best Birth book. I wish someone had shoved the latter in my hands and forced me to read it when I was pregnant.
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Well, I will tell you that you and I were both members of the same iVillage board. Though we don’t share the same views on much, I will say that you couldn’t have more accurate and honest with this post!!!
My son was born via c-section after 23 hours of labor failed to deliver him and it became an emergency situation. I was too small physically to deliver such a big baby and my cervix began to undialate (sp?).
Anyway, since my c-section I’ve been battling an array of physical ailments drs and specialist cannot diagnose, other than calling them complications brought on by c-section.
One of my best friends had an emergency c-section (serious cord issue) and she just recently underwent surgery to repair the damage done to her fallopian tubes, bladder, and colon — all damage from having a c-section.
You’re right. We need to TRULY educate ourselves when it comes to pregnancy and birthing our babies.
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Thanks for the review, Gina!
Even though I’m totally on your side as far as CS beliefs, I thought I’d give voice to those those of us whose vaginal births didn’t end up roses.
I had an awesome midwife but even she couldn’t prevent me from tearing all the way through (no fault of anyone’s…it’s how my skin is). Sex between child 1 and child 2 was not good. There were, in fact, serious complaints on both sides of the aisle. My plumbing was totally messed up, and thankfully I was able to get some minor surgery after baby 2 to get things working right.
I’m sure that getting a CS can do horrors to your sex life, but a vaginal delivery doesn’t necessarily mean that that issue will turn out perfectly either.
While I know people (and research) would take exception to Kristen’s comment, as someone who had a rotten sex life after my first baby then I seriously considered that a CS for baby 2 would have helped that area, especially since I had friends who were thankful for their CS experience.
Obviously, I’m glad I didn’t because I got things fixed, but those two+ years between babies was miserable.
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if someone would give me just 10 minutes alone with this woman, i could probably change her mind. i mean, i’m the luckiest bitch of all gina! i mean, my baby was in the NICU for weeks and i had a raging infection in my csection. did i tell you about my awesome experience with having my csection REOPENED without any drugs and then the subsequent 3 weeks with a wound vac? THank god I’m such a lucky bitch!
Michelle´s last blog ..Baby Update (8 weeks)
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@Stephanie- Thanks for another point of view. Yes, that happens sometimes and I’m sure that it was awful. I just wish that women were aware that it is more likely to happen because of getting an epidural and medical birth practices, instead of making it sound like it happens every time. And that just the physical properties of the vagina aren’t the only issues that can affect your sex life.
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It was a great review, and I have shared it with our ICAN group here as well as on facebook.
Dh tells me to pass on that he doesn’t notice a difference either, after two vaginal births. What he notices is that no matter what it is – sex changes after a baby. I recognize that Mominatrix is trying to capture that more so in her book than to slam birth choices. But I must admit I haven’t read the book yet and I probably will not, more so because I feel that women need to advocate for each other instead of taking “tongue and cheek” hits at each other.
Mominatrix – this is what frustrates me. Women have a hard enough time feeling unsexual. To take your comment out of your book wouldn’t be possible, but I think you need to realize the consequences of saying things like this. It’s a huge, huge ripple effect in the pool of mothers, babies, and pregnancies.
Now, I’m not suggesting a disclaimer because I personally know too many women who will go out and buy the sexiest nursing bra and who will use their nursing pillows as home-made Liberators. I know far too many women who whimsically fall into a pregnancy believing it will be just like Brit Brit with scheduled c-sections, no muss no fuss, and nothing will ever change on their perfect bodies. It may just have been the seed planted by the comment.
On a whole other tangent, though, I know of many many women who suffer through hyperemesis pregnancies and desperately need to birth their babies however they need to birth them.
In any case – we should have community supports in place for mothers who do have c-sections – both before, during, and after. Women need to support each other more, and not talk each other down.
Anyway, I won’t be adding the book to my library any time soon but I do think that sexuality is something that our society hushes far too much. Especially sexuality of mothers. Sigh.
TFB, loving your blog!
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Who IS this impostor writing for TFB?? That was way too nice and careful a review, though I find your zen-over-spiting-fire approach refreshing. 
Unlike you, just reading those excerpts, i *do* have a problem with her work. You write a book, you have the opportunity to entertain, share your experience, teach… and THAT is what you choose to say? I’m just sayin’ it stinks of being controversial for ratings, publicity, etc. Given her response, she obviously doesn’t really think that way and that’s pretty nauseating. But whatever. 99% of books relating to women during and after pregnancy might as well be written on flattened and dried pieces of shit and flushed down the collective bad-for-birth-and-women toilet.
C-Section Bitches. How cute, you all have a nickname now. Guess that makes me Gaping Vag Bitch.
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The emotional outpouring in these comments is really bringing tears to my eyes. Let me respond to a few…
@knottyrhonda – thank you for your comment. I think you made such a great point. Advocacy is so important.
@mktarrant – I’m so sorry about what happened you. You and your baby deserved so much better.
@creaturebug – that sucks that you had such a hard time, and you’re right, neither birth guarantees a great sex life. It is completely subjective. I think that’s the point so many moms are trying to make. I hope your next time, if there is a next time, is much better.
@Beth – thanks for your comment. This is SUCH an important issue for women to be educated on.
@sparkandecho – Yes, I’ve decided Girlfriend’s Guide is so bad now that when I was cleaning out my books, I opted to throw it away rather than donate it because I didn’t want ANY of that advice passed on to some other poor woman.
@FamilyNature – You’ve been through a lot with your cesareans, I know. I hurt for you.
@Morgan – it’s true. We must reverse this thought that vaginal birth wrecks our bodies. It is so untrue.
@Renee – your comment really made me (and my husband who was reading over my shoulder) so very sad for you. I hope one day you can find a way to reclaim what that cesarean robbed from you.
@PoshNicole – I know what you mean. The physical scarring is one thing, but the emotional scarring can be so much worse. My belly scar is barely noticeable, but that surgery changed me in ways most people cannot imagine. It’s a healing-in-process, that’s for sure.
@flowers13 – Wait, what’s a she-harness?!? I’m DYING to get hip to that!
@A – I’m so sorry to hear that you had to FAKE every orgasm between your c/s and vbac. And trust me when I say I know what you mean about being able to orgasm easier after my VBAC!
@Dou_la_la – thank you SO MUCH for posting the study referenced in “Pushed.” I totally forgot about that. And yeah, thanks for warning me about the book “Knocked up.” Speaking of a similar title, I recently noticed that the the MOVIE “Knocked Up” is actually VERY pro-natural birth!
@quazydellasue – “squeeze a baby out of the intended hole” – that made me crack up.
@birthyourway – Thank you for the compliment, Patrice.
@Miss M – I am SO GLAD that you managed to find at least one dissenting opinion. Those mainstream, crap ass pregnancy websites are completely ruining women’s confidence in birth, and our infant mortality rate is paying the price.
@andrea_owen – yep, you are so right – we make babies to birth them.
@Twinsanity – I am so sorry you feel that way about your tummy now. Cesareans can definitely leave the stomach looking unsightly. It’s hard for things to snap back there when all the muscle has been cut up. Not cool.
@BirthBabiesBlog – again, I’m sorry about what happened to your sex life. That really sucks. Maybe if you get a VBAC it’ll all be put back in place?
@Meg – I really wish I had been smart enough to get myself a midwife and some Bradley classes, but instead, Girlfriend’s Guide was my “guide.” Bad move on my part.
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lol- no fancy harness, just the power she (my vag) holds after learning learning how to strengthen my inner muscles. Maybe needed to be worded better! lol
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Having had an emergency c-section I resent the idea that it is the ‘pain-free’ way to go. It’s abdominal surgery people! After the birth I was confined to a bed for 24 hours until they took the catheter out. Not able to get up, I had to page a nurse every time my newborn baby needed changing. I had to be on morphine for the pain for a week and then another few weeks on milder pain killers. Being incapacitated is not a good thing with a little baby – particularly trying to sit up in the middle of the night to breastfeed.
Also, the whole ‘wrecked vagina’ thing to do with natural birth is a falsehood. 6 months post-birth there is no difference between natural-birth women and c-section women.
This c-section bitch wished she had read the chapter on c-sections so I would have known if my emergency c-section was actually an emergency.
I’m going to be throwing everything at trying for a VBAC next time.
Zoey @ Good Goog´s last blog ..Up Close and Personal
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i had a c-section and 2 vag births. and i can tell you from experience, those c-sections suck. i’d rather have vag births any day. recovery time is quicker. and there is not much residual pain. and besides, you can’t see the scar from an episiotomy in a bikini.
oh yeah, and i’ve never had problems w/a stretched out vagina, leaking bladder or anything else.
lucky? i dunno. maybe.
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@Melissa – I say the same thing. I’ll take my vaginal birth over another cesarean 100 times over.
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I just wanted to comment on my experience with an epidural.
I was induced with my little one (he is now almost 3 months old), and after a few hours on pitocin I had only dilated 1 more cm than I already was (I went from 3 to 4 cm). I was told that in order to progress I needed to have my water broken, and in order for my water to be broken, I had to have an epidural.
I was already afraid of the epidural, but my experience was absolute hell. A resident came in to do the procedure and everything seemed like it would be fine…
Well, he began the procedure and got to the final step 5 TIMES, each time leaving me shrieking (asking if something was wrong because it felt like someone was sticking a metal straw into my back and pushing it downward). He REPEATED despite his consistent failure for over an hour… now, I was having so many contractions that I was focused on breathing and staying still that I lost track of time and the number of his attempts or I would NEVER have allowed it. It was my first child, and my husband was the only support person in the room with me so he really had no clue if this was ‘normal.’ The nurse did nothing to stop this.
Eventually, I said I refused to have it done again, and a new anesthesiologist had to come in, and when I tried talking to him through my tears of SERIOUS pain (I do not cry easily), he had NO RESPONSES to comfort me. My husband and my mother (who I demanded be allowed to come back into the room) started demanding answers, and we got hardly anything. I was so confused and desperate that I did allow this doctor to attempt the epidural once, and by the grace of God it worked out okay. Everything went very well after the epi, but that experience alone makes me question the entire lot of choices I made regarding my birth experience, and next time, I most likely will be working with a midwife on something that does not torture me in the middle of labor.
All in all, I just wanted to get across that getting an epidural is NOT always easy, and it can be downright torture.
Thank you for addressing the issues of epidurals with an educated tenacity.
Erin (A Mom Writing)´s last blog ..another reason I am happy to switch to cloth…
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Ok since this is a grown up article I will provide TMI.
Giving birth the normative way (vaginally) has done wonders for my sexual experience and relationship. And I thought it was good beforehand!
Having to learn about my vagina from the inside while birthing must have hardwired SOMETHING because now I have a really great understanding of certain muscles and areas down there. It has led to a greater participation in the marital embrace. I feel sensations and have a mental ‘know how’ of it when before it did not exist. Well, it must have existed but my body was not aware of it until a baby glided on past! lol
Vaginal problems are typically related to poorly managed childbirths with too many interventions such as poor position, pushing out of sync with the body, numbing from epidurals, episiotomies, forceps usage etc etc.
So get out there and push a baby through your vagina. You will be quite pleased.
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@GuggieDaly – Hear hear! Thank you! I totally agree that pushing a baby past those muscles can give you a GREAT understanding of how it all works. Great comment!
@amomwriting – Yes. Torture in the middle of labor is no fun at all. I’m sorry you went through that. Let the lesson be that Epidurals are NOT fool proof!
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Oh yes, I sure was LUCKY to get a C-section with my first baby. I was so LUCKY, in fact, that the OB cut into my cervix accidentally, didn’t tell me, and then I suffered – oops, I mean ENJOYED IMMENSELY – a severe secondary postpartum hemorrage and gushed buckets of blood – oops, I mean SUPER FUN CHERRY KOOLAID – all over my bedroom, bathroom, the ambulance, and the ER before they could find the source of the bleeding, do a transfusion, and stitch my cervix back together. And then I was LUCKY enough to spend the next day in the hospital bawling hysterically – oops, I mean GIGGLING WITH JOY – because I was seperated from my newborn baby and soaking my hospital bed with milk, not to mention traumatized – oops, I mean BASKING IN POST-ORGASMIC GLOW – from almost bleeding to death.
But, I figured that lightning doesn’t always strike twice and I might not get so LUCKY again, so I stayed home to have my second baby. And it was euphoric, triumphant, painful yes, but EMPOWERING, and I would rather have a thousand more drug-free vaginal births than another Cesarean.
This is precisely why I avoid most “mommy forums” on the internet. I just can’t hold my tongue in the midst of the “C-sections are awesome! Vaginal birth is for hippies! It ruins your “down there” (seriously how repressed do you have to be to refer to your genitals as “DOWN THERE”) just like breastfeeding ruins your boobs.” AARGGHGHERUTYIURTHUIRST.
Jill´s last blog ..Parallels Pt. 2
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What some of you are forgetting is that not every city/location has the same options as others.
For example, midwives are not allowed to delivery or even practice at the hospital where babies are delivered in my hometown. If you want a midwife to attend to you, you’re having a home birth or you’re driving.
So, if you’re forced to have an OB and a hospital birth, sometimes the epidural isn’t evil. If you’re strapped to a bed and not able to switch positions, an epidural can be a life saver.
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Yeah, it’s SO fucking sexy having your wound reopen four days postpartum and start bleeding so bad that you soak three pads on the way to urgent care to have it looked at. And then it’s even hotter when it gets a multi-drug resistant infection that requires literally months of antibiotics and never quite goes away until you get desperate and try a cocktail of herbal remedies because whatever the doctors are doing obviously ISN’T working. The three times a week visit to the outpatient physical therapist wound clinic was just the sexiest post partum outing ever for my husband and I, but I think the most intimate, loving, and downright orgasmic part of all was where my husband had to dressing changes twice a day because I couldn’t see the c-section wound to do it myself. I still get hot and wet thinking of him putting on those sterile gloves and opening the sterile q tips to pack three yards of saline soaked gauze kerlix into my hot, throbbing c-section wound. Oh yeah, good times, there, Mominatrix. Good times. I’d go through it all again twice if it’ll keep my vayjajay all snappy. Because it’s a muscular canal you know. Not like I can do any exercise or anything to tighten it back up.
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@Natasha – I read an article once (that I cannot seem to locate right now) called “The Epidural is for Putting Up with the Hospital.”
To your point though, I’d say that the REAL problem is lack of birth choice, and if a woman is being forced to deliver some place that will not honor her wishes, well, that is just one more reason we need to be fighting for our birthing rights, instead of just taking drugs to put up with the system.
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I don’t care how funny she was trying to be, I find this statement “Consider yourselves lucky, you c-section bitches.” plain offensive. I should consider myself lucky that I had a disgusting seeping infection from my external incision after BOTH of my c-sections? I should consider myself lucky that I got to hear MY OB confirm that yes, my flesh smells like BBQ when she was cauterizing it? I should consider myself lucky that I had my first anxiety attack on that table and thought I was going to die and never get to see the baby they just pulled out of me? lol Riiiight.
I do consider myself lucky that I was able to find trusting midwives that were willing to assist me after I’d been butchered. I consider myself lucky that my body does know how to do what it was designed to do.
As for the sex, my sex life is just as good as it was before I had my first baby. My husband couldn’t tell a difference before or after my VBAC and is quite satisfied with my vagina.
Thanks for posting some truth about these statements Gina!! You rock.
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Confused at the compliments about the “book review” in this comment thread. This blog post is not a review, it’s commentary regarding 4 sentences plucked out of 50,000+ words. The real review apparently will have to wait until Gina’s husband is done admiring her perfect vagina.
I’m really surprised a self-identified feminist would be so condescending to imply that women are sheep that could be swayed into a medical procedure by a short paragraph in a sex book. Maybe the reality is that Kristen has more respect for the intelligence of her audience than you do.
Since the comments on this thread are rife with anecdotal evidence, let me add my own: my youngest would not be celebrating his 7th birthday in a few weeks if not for a C-section. My wife found it a bit hard to naturally deliver when her amniotic sac ruptured 2 months early. She gladly chose her minimal scar (and no residual effects) over our son’s death.
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@imperfectparent – my readers, my husband, and I could all do without the insults. I think I showed more respect than that. It’s not going to go over well here.
I’m sorry about what happened to your wife. Nobody said that cesareans (along with any other surgery) are never life saving – they certainly can be. There is a time and a place for everything. The women traumatized and devastated by their cesareans, however, take great offense to being called “lucky.”
It is my job as a soon-to-be-professional VBACtivist to be a watchdog for these type of perpetuated myths, and I will not be silenced by any insults. Women need support to avoid this trauma, and that doesn’t make them “sheep.”
I’m glad your wife and your baby had a good cesarean experience. I wish the rest of us were so “lucky.”
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The problem is that a lot of the women who will read that book WILL be the mainstream, epidural wanting mamas who think a cesarean is a better idea because they don’t like surprises (and it won’t “ruin your vagina”). You can’t tell them any differently, even if you give them concrete facts. I could write out an entire article with the sources listed and I would still get some women telling me “no, that’s not true.”
I spent a good chunk of my pregnancy fighting with those women on mainstream forums about natural birth and it’s a never ending battle.
For every book like that our side should come out with two. Eventually one of those women will listen, right?
Jessica Westbrook´s last blog ..Pardon the dust!
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Gina, I’m glad you called out the flip epidural advice. I’m wondering if the author was trying to make C-section women feel better – or have a sense of humor – by her comment? Even if I and others give the author the benefit of the doubt, I hope she reads the many, many opinions of many women here and reconsider being “flip” and badass or whatever about a subject that is so very hard for so many women.
The “tight vagina” thing is ridiculous. Sadly, I’ve heard it before. I wish two things: women would quit bringing these myths up – and therefore creating ANOTHER thing for women to worry about – and 2. do some Kegels and relax. Maybe one more thing: go read Scarleteen re: vagina HUGENESS and quit picking on *other* women’s vaginas and their (imagined or real) state.
FWIW, my sex life and sexual response is better than ever after two births, the last one home and of course – unmedicated.
Don’t add me to a C-section or epidural Hater – a woman who thinks less of women who didn’t have “natural” births. That’s just not me. But like Gina I’m a little concerned at how much medical intervention, trauma, breastfeeding sabotage, the ridiculously high C-section rate in our country (last figure I heard is 33%). The least we can do is start talking about this stuff without being horrid to one another.
Kelly´s last blog ..little fish, little fish
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@natasha – The fact that midwives can’t practice in some hospitals doesn’t mean you need to get an epidural, and just because you give birth in a hospital doesn’t mean you need to be strapped to a table.
What a lot of women don’t realize is that stuff is not mandatory, you can opt out of anything. A lot of natural birth advocates give birth in hospitals.
Jessica Westbrook´s last blog ..Pardon the dust!
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Gina- I think your review is very respectful. Funny or not, these ideas are dangerous. Think along the lines of urban myths. While I believe that it is the responsibility of a woman to do the research and make informed choices I also see a huge gap in the availability of reliable and responsible information. Instead we see a society that likes to be entertained and derives it’s information from the pop culture cloud. I know of so many women who have had primary c’s and are left thinking that they are broken. That their bodies do not work. Told this by the very people who are supposed to be helping. I really do not see how suggesting a c-section or epidural supports a woman’s sexual security or pleasure post-partum. To me that is just another way of saying, “You are broken and your body will not work right without intervention.”
This is a passionate topic about a very personal thing. Really, Mominatrix could have said go have an abortion and save yourself the damage to your sex life and body image. What is the difference?
Women should be helping other women realize their power and potential while protecting their rights.
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@lepetitowlet I think one of the things that’s clear from the comments is that women are less informed and more willing to do everything a doctor says is a “must” with a first pregnancy. So, when a doctor says “you must be monitored,” you let him or her monitor you.
Perhaps I should have said I had planned on going natural. Why? Because my mother did it that way. But my docs decided I was high risk and had to have constant monitoring. I was induced because I was a week overdue. I made it about twelve hours before I asked for the epidural. Back labor is NO JOKE! Had I been allowed to move and walk, I’m fairly certain I would have made it drug-free a bit longer, perhaps through the entire process.
I guess my major point is this: having a care provider who is on board with your pain management plan is crucial. I think we can agree midwives are more comfortable with a woman who has decided to go au naturale than an OB.
Natasha´s last blog ..Who I am
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I don’t know what these pro-section for the sake of their vag women are talking about. I’ve birthed 4 vaginally & sex is awesome. My vag is awesome. I love my vag and apparently, I’m not the only one who loves it ,otherwise I doubt it would see as much action as it does.
But then again,I’m sitting here doing my Kegels as I type and my ben wa balls and I have a banging love affair. The Kegel bar is nice,too. But even without that, I can’t imagine a vagina would be as abused & malformed as some pro-csection women claim it must be after multiple births. The way they make it sound, a guy would have to tie a 2 x 4 to his ass to keep from falling in.
Post this blog post on Amazon reviews (or a variation of it). It’ll save some women valuable money for important things – like a doula or something good.
Jupiter´s last blog ..Give it away give it away give it away now
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@imperfectparent it’s precisely that is a few throw away lines that has rubbed everyone the wrong way.
Zoey @ Good Goog´s last blog ..The Chuckle
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Also, my c-section and recovery was HELL.Why anyone would WANT to go through that on purpose is beyond me. Nope, I didn’t feel very lucky.
My one & only epidural? My blood pressure crashed and next time I came to, I was surrounded by nurses & doctors with this ,”Oh,shit!” look on their face. Epidurals scare me.
Jupiter´s last blog ..Give it away give it away give it away now
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I don’t know why these things always turn into pro-c-section vs anti-c-section debates. Of course, EVERYBODY KNOWS that c-sections can be life saving surgeries. My own four children would be dead and so would I four times over if it weren’t for my c-sections. That doesn’t mean we should sell c-sections as vagina preserving operations. The idea is preposterous and it perpetuates the myth of c-sections as easier, more civilized and something to be desired.
FamilyNature´s last blog ..Resolutions, A Little More Defined
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As an aging L&D nurse who came of age in the 70s, saw birth go from “Yes Doctor”, to “Ina May” and then swing back, to my horror, further than I could ever have imagined, I am so grateful that young women are out there getting the word out that birth is about choices (informed ones), and that sex can thrive after vaginal birth. It’s so discouraging to me when I ask a soon-to-be new mother if she and her partner have “done any reading or research, or taken any classes” about their pregnancy and birth options, and the response I get is either “No, because I’m going to get an epidural” (Ahem…what if I can’t get the anesthetist here when you want them?), or “No, but I watched ‘The Baby Story’”. It saddens me when a woman comes in in strong, active, /late/ labor and is nearly hysterical, begging for the epidural that may never happen…and she is suffering so much more, in my observations (although I realize my observations are subject to my bias), from her fear than her pain. Keep up the good work, ladies…keep getting that word out!
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One of the elements of the “breastfeeding ruins your boob/ vaginal birth ruins your vagina” themes that really bothers and angers me – besides the fact that they are *not true* – is that these comments seem to be for the benefit of men rather than women. I’ve never heard a woman suggest that having a “tighter” vagina made sex more pleasurable for her (I mean, how many of us had an orgasmic-induced fantastic sex the first time?) – only for men. Culturally, men often prefer (or the cultural discourse says they prefer) tighter vaginas. Men want boobs to look a certain way. So to me all this nonsense about boobs and vaginas and birth is REALLY about preserving women’s bodies to be “more perfect” sexual playgrounds for men. It’s about objectifying women and making sure they never forget their only meaning/status in society comes from being sex objects.
I’m sure there are women out there who have had difficulties with sex following vaginal birth (I myself had a lot of tearing and it took a long time before sex was comfortable), but the problem is the larger context for the discourse.
(and since most people are ponying up with personal experience, I’ll say I’m both a natural childbirth advocate and someone who for a variety of medical reasons ended up having an epidural rather than my planned-for unmedicated birth. I believe in my specific medical case the epidural saved me from a c-section, but I also don’t think that this experience has anything to do with the birthing experiences of many, or most, women [ie the fact that the commonality of epidurals can be dangerous, women are ill-informed as to possible side effects, and that they are routinely given way too early in labor].)
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Wow – I haven’t been able to read all the comments. But of those I have read, I feel so terrible for my fellow mothers who’ve had such traumatic experiences with C-sections.
Greater advocacy is certainly important … but how can we achieve that when these kinds of books are considered so “hip” and others that advocate an unmedicated birth tend to be considered so “left field” or “radical.” A major middle ground is needed. You’re a great writer, how about you write the “hip guide to natural birth”? I’d buy it and pass it out to friends!
As for me, I had one vag birth, then one elective c-section. I’d do the c-section again in a heart-beat. It was a much more positive experience for me overall. But that doesn’t mean I’d ever advocate it for others — it is a major surgery and there are major risks (as clearly documented in these comments). It needs to be an educated choice, not a “hip” choice.
Great post. Glad I found your blog.
Julie
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You know, after my c-sections I felt like absolute garbage. I can say without a doubt that sex after a c-section was more painful than sex after a vaginal birth. I don’t know, I think there’s something to be said about being sliced open, having doctors wrestle with your internal organs and your baby, then shoving everything back in and stitching/ stapling you back up. It HURTS. It does NOT feel worthwhile. At least with my VBA2C, it felt worthwhile. It felt like I wasn’t going to literally burst at the seam. Do women like Mominatrix realize how terrifying it feels to worry that even lifting your baby might possibly open your incision site, causing a gory and gruesome mess? No, I’ll stick with my husband who realizes that people change over time. I’m sorry, but we all get baggy-saggy thanks to gravity and age. I’d rather show the signs of a life well lived than fill my body with toxins and plastics or have doctors cut off and stretch my skin, thank you. I’d rather feel like my perineum is stretched to the max than have doctors rummaging about in my abdominal cavity.
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I have birthed two gorgeous daughters and used an epidural with the first and nothing with the second. It was my reaction to the epidural with my first that lead to my becoming a natural birth advocate. I had a histamine reaction which lead to my breaking out in hives and needing benadryl which lead to uncontrollable shaking. During all of this, labor slowed and I was given Pitocin. I felt dead from the legs down (which was horrid for me because I can’t sit still for anything and here I was chemically forced to lie there for hours!)
Second birth was much better because I was more informed and I stayed away from the “mainstream mama” publications. I received Pitocin with the second but no pain meds. Was it hard work? Yes! Was in intolerable… no! I think that we are not giving ourselves enough credit as women. We can take the pain of labor but you won’t know that until you get there. My SIL was deadset on the epi with her first but by the time she arrived to deliver, she was ready to push. Looking back, she said is was “not as bad as I thought!”
“Mainstream Mama” media is not doing anyone a service. Everything shows mothers in labor screaming, cursing and looking close to death, is that the kind of legacy we want to impart on our daughters??
I don’t know if I will read Mominatrix’s book. I don’t know enough about to say for sure, but does the world really need another “how to be naughty in bed” book? I can say for sure that those types of books have hindered, more than helped, my sex life. I have a hard time engaging in sex with my husband because I can’t enjoy it. I am too busy thinking about whether I should do some kinky things or talk dirty (all of which are WAY out of my comfort zone.) I need a sex book that says that plain ol’ vanilla sex is a-ok as well!
Thanks for your thoughts, Gina! I am glad that I found this site!
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Need to edit:
You can take the pain out of labor but you will not know if you will NEED to until you get there
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Thank you so much for this review. I think you were being super-polite, considering the statements you excerpted. They definitely make my blood boil.
And allow me to shed a little light on my primary c-section experience. It was so bad, followed by a raging 2-month infection, that I got PTSD and didn’t have sex for the next 10 months. Yep, that c-section brought me almost a year’s worth of abstinence. How awesome! I’ll take a flabby vag over being afraid to have sex any day of the week.
Lisa´s last blog ..Happy New Year, and Happy Birthday to me!
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@Gina, If you ever come across that article you mentioned for Natasha please pass it on. I love the notion of epidurals being a method for dealing with the hospital! (Well, I don’t love it…it just is one I hadn’t heard before and really hits the nail on the head.)
hillary´s last blog ..flowers13: @prepforbirth me!
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I’ve had 2 babies born out of my vagina and really don’t notice any problems/changes now. My husband says the same.
I say “now” because I tore pretty horribly the first time around. I had an epi, and couldn’t feel properly when/where to push, so am sure that was instrumental in my tearing. It was 10 mos before we could have sex comfortably.
My second delivery was natural, and it was so much easier to tell when to push and the right way, in fact my body did it for me. So as I felt the baby crowning I knew to lighten up on the pushing a little to avoid a big tear.
I remember worrying about this a bit pre-birth the first time around but really it’s unfounded.
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I am pregnant with my second and in hope for a VBAC (my first ended in emergency C-Section due to her being breech and then attempting an external version that caused my placenta to rupture).
I have had a very hard time finding a VBAC friendly OB or midwife in my area (the midwives have no OB support for VBAC’s and can’t take me as a patient) so I will be traveling over an hour away to, hopefully, get my VBAC. It took me a long time to feel at all sexual again after my CS (between hemorrhoids and just being nervous to do to much… activity… ect) and I am hoping that wont be the case with my VBAC (though, it isn’t my foundational reason for VBACing).
Thanks for sharing your review and I’ll be sure to avoid the book until AFTER I have a successful VBAC and have some personal experience to back me up in knowing she is wrong about CS’s being the better way to go!
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Ok, so I’m only 6 months postpartum from my natural (almost water) birth, and can I just say that I’m clearly not there yet. Heck, I didn’t even tear or need a single stitch, and I’m still not there.
Sex is touch and go for us, and when it is go for us, it’s go slowly and gently. I cannot relate to the “It’s better than ever after my vag birth!” commenters.
I just think maybe we should share this truth here too. I would hate for someone to read through these comments and think that when they get the green light from the Dr. 6 weeks out that sex is going to be a magical Disneyland experience the likes of which she had never known. It’s not. It’s not the same. Yet.
But what I’m hearing is that it WILL BE, and that a C-section for the sake of your sex life is a ridiculously irresponsible idea. This is true. I would not trade my informed, natural (hospital) birth for ANYTHING.
But I also don’t think that we should act like we all pushed human beings out of our vaginas and our husbands were none the wiser 6 weeks later, you know? Maybe it’s good and maybe it’s better than post-C-section sex, but it’s not all roses from the get go, amen?
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I ended up having an epidural after 40 hours of unmedicated labor at home because I was only 4cm and I was starting to hallucinate from sleep deprivation. I knew I wouldn’t be able to push if I didn’t get some sleep. I asked for a small dose so that it would wear off by pushing and it pretty much did but I was still required to be strapped to the table because I had it. Very annoying. So I had about 4 hours of effective epidural and then it tapered off long before I got to pushing. (My full labor was a bit over 49 hours.) I didn’t allow them to give me pitocin until the last 45 minutes when my contractions tried to slow down to every 15 minutes. The kid was well in the birth canal and I wanted it *done*.
So I definitely didn’t have a completely natural childbirth, but I feel very comfortable with my set of choices. I absolutely went the vaginal birth route and I don’t feel like I was a ‘wuss’ in any flippin way. I’m going to try for a homebirth again next time. So you can see that I am absolutely in that camp.
Sex sucks. I used to be the most easily orgasmic woman ever (it was *great*). And now I usually can’t orgasm at all and if I get there it is after heroic feats. I am pregnant once again and my libido is at zero. I always thought I would be one of the women who gets tremendously constantly horny during pregnancy and just hasn’t worked out that way. You never know how these experiences will effect your body. I don’t think I will be buying this book because I’ve been very active in the alternative sex communities for more than ten years and I don’t think she would suggest anything novel for me. That said, I desperately miss being a sexual person and I’m hoping that when my kids decide to wean (I’m still nursing my oldest while pregnant) that I get to find that part of me again. None of the physical results of becoming a parent are predictable and I wish that people didn’t act like “If you just do ‘x’ things will be great!” Cause it’s all crap.
Krissy´s last blog ..Negativity
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FIrst, I’m totally bummed that I always get your posts in my email a day after you post them. But whatever.
Sex for me was way better after my VBAC too. Nothing like renewed confidence in your body’s abilities to rock the bedroom. After my c-section I wasn’t interested in sex or a very long time. I think we had sex twice during the first year. I thought it was just me. I thought c-sections should have made me want sex more often since I wasn’t “ruined” inside my vagina. But it hurt and I was miserable. I still find it a bit weird and can understand why some people would think sex would be better afterwards, but it sure wasn’t for me. But after my VBAC I was interested in sex sooner and I was much happier.
Melodie´s last blog ..Mindfully Loving My Children
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Gina,
Thanks for your comments. It makes me so mad to see any woman take such an insensitive tone regarding pregnancy and birth. It’s enough that the hormone levels made me cry at every commercial and that being a first-time mom with an authoritative doctor helped me feel insecure about anything I thought I knew about myself and my body. Women don’t need help worrying about what it will be like after their baby is born.
I read Girlfriend’s Guide too. And it’s hard not to take some of it seriously the first time around. I didn’t know anything about anything. I was lucky- I hired a doula who steered me to additional reading.
The best thing that ever happened to me was discovering that I really had choices about my body and birthing, even with my overbearing doctor who told me my baby was going to die “if we don’t induce next Tuesday.” (Not kidding!)
Like others’ comments, my enjoyment of sex is about feeling sexy. And after 2 kids (both vaginal births) that’s about stepping out of my mommy role and remembering the woman I am. I enjoy sex more since having children, but I think it’s because I have embraced being a woman in a new way.
Karen´s last blog ..What’s Normal?
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@PreScott My Second c-section, which was an attempted VBAC saved my childs life too, doesn’t make it suck any less. It doesn’t change that it caused serious PPD for me, lack of connection to my newborn baby, and yet more complications for any of my other pregnancies.
Until you have been there, you don’t have the right to discount others feelings.
The comment “consider yourself lucky c-section bitches” is offensive.
Danielle´s last blog ..Own It
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@AllisonO, I completely agree. Sex was PAINFUL for a full 8 or 9 months for me. In the beginning, I’m sure that had a lot to do with the carnage my vagina suffered, because it did. Toward the end, I’m thinking it had more to do with breastfeeding and the lack of hormones. Once my period returned at 9 months postpartum things were MUCH better. But, yes, let’s be real here, not all women experience amazing sex right after having a baby. That being said I’ll till take those 9 months and several bottles of Astroglide over an unnecessary c-section.
Jill @BabyRabies´s last blog ..The car seat debate and how we came back to backwards
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Yahooo! Look at all your traffic! I am so happy for you!
Anywho, I just wanted to say…I dunno, I feel sort of wishy washy on this–myself? Anything I read or hear doesn’t tend to sway me one way or the other, it’s just a way for me to see “what’s out there”. I, too, read The Girlfriend’s Guide to Surviving the First Year of Motherhood and laughed out loud at times, agreed at times, and disagreed at others. It was mere entertainment for me, as I would assume Mominatrix’s book would be to me. I know that there are other women in the world that read something and take it as gospel, and that’s sad to me. I can’t count how many times my best friends and family said to me, “One word–epidural”, or “why would you NOT have an epidural, it’s there, take it!”, or the ever popular, “A c-section is the way to go”…I took it all in and still did what my semi-edumacated mind told me to do. I had a natural, no IV, no drugs vaginal birth and had pretty awesome sex 5 weeks later (Shhh, don’t tell my doc). And I hope to do the same this time.
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I am literally sick to my stomach reading comments and realizing that I am not alone in feeling the horrible after effects of C/S. My first born was a homebirth and as most women have commented, vaginal birth gave me a new understanding of my sexual experience, let alone allowing me to orgasm much more powerfully.
My second born turned breech at 33 weeks. After a painful external manipulation where doctors attempted to turn my baby headdown she remained feet first and I went from planning another homebirth to planning a C/S. I received little support from my midwife in transitioning to a new doctor. I searched for midwives that would birth breech babies but found the legal ramifications terrifying and ended up finding a new OB just 3 weeks before my baby was to be born. When I went into labor a week before the scheduled C/S I wanted to stay home as long as possible to labor before going in unplanned. We called the hospital but they were unprepared for us and made my contraction seem insignificant and told me to hold off at home, even though I knew I was in labor. We arrived at the hospital on our own, and my baby girl’s toes were basically about to pop out because I was 6 cm dialated (which, some have told me if I would have waited just a bit more to go in they may have let me just birth natural breech since there was a Dr familiar with natural breech deliveries, but obv they prefer C/S- but that’s another story)
Surgery went quick and I thought I was in the mindframe after to deal with it all. I kept telling myself “you labored for 12 hours, you did what you could and got to experience a bit of labor” but life after C/S is hell. Lucky? I would never consider myself lucky after having a C/S. The pain I feel at my incision site is a daily, weekly, monthly reminder of a birth experience that I didn’t want (and yes, I’ve heard all the ‘but your baby is healthy BS’”) Nurses were joking with me as I left the hospital that I would be my husbands own personal weather girl. Now I understand what the hell they were talking about when my incision site twinges at every turn of the weather! It’s a constant reminder of that you were cut into.
Aside from pain, I feel selfconscious. Like others, I had began to feel sexual liberated as an woman, as a mother- and then- that all changed. It’s harder to lose weight, it’s hard to feel sexy naked with a large dark purplish scar above your once treasured yoni. And my orgasms are less than great, and that’s only if I can even bring myself to let go. My man and I went from having a healthy sex life to having an infrequent sex life- mostly because I am horrified that I wouldn’t be able to VBAC and would go in for another C/S.
Thank you to TFB for your review.
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Here’s my two cents – I had two vaginal births (the second being a little botched after they waited too long to give me the epi, and I basically had a natural childbirth). I tore both times, and both times bounced right back. My third “awesome non-labor” C-section, left so weak from blood loss that I passed out when nurses tried to get me to use the bathroom – yum, passing out on a hospital bathroom floor – and because they waited too long to replenish the blood (two transfusions), my milk never came in and I was robbed of feeding my own child. Then came the horrible panic and anxiety attacks, where I spent weeks wanting to crawl out of my own skin. The disconnection to my infant, and the depression that followed. Yes…C-sections are THE BOMB. Sex…what sex? I remember sex back in the day before and after my first two…now? Hmmm… I will never…NEVER have another child, I made sure of that when lil one was about a year old. I could never go through that trauma again. It almost destroyed me. Damn I feel lucky! 
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Well if it is TMI then here goes anyway, i have 4 children and sex just gets better. All were vaginal births. What’s empoweering about having MAJOR surgery and not doing what our bodies are made to cope with. Self belief and ‘letting go’ in birth and therefore also sex, that IS sexy and empowering. But that frightens the fuck out of some people.
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@Natasha and Jessica Through my own birth experiences and my clients as well, I’ve learned how hard it is to advocate on your own behalf, when the staff if telling you “it isn’t done that way here.” or shaking their heads “no” while you plead with them to find you a doctor who will deliver a breech baby vaginally. My second c-sect saved my little boy who was in danger from complications of my first unnecessarian. Having the strength to advocate for yourself begins with knowledge and supportive statements from friends and profesionals alike.
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and BTW I hope this isn’t mean, but did it seem like self promotion when Mominatrix posted “But you’ll also find recommendations for sexy nursing bras and nursing pillows (which double as sex pillows — fyi!), as well as a zillion other great helpful hints that help moms reclaim their libidos and spice up their love life.” and then said “Perhaps Gina will pass her copy around (if she hasn’t burned it yet — HA!) or you can grab it yourself, and take a read. I’d love to hear your thoughts.” I used to cry when I described my traumatic birth experience. I’m pretty sure many women who posted re-lived their own traumatic birth experiences while doing so. Her response seemed to disregard this. One cannot simply shift responsibility for what they say to a “persona”. “The Mominatrix persona is indeed smartass, flip, and tongue in cheek.” I found her reply as flip as her “persona” so I wonder, would her reply have been less flip had it carried her real name?
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First let me say I am unbelievably taken by the sheer courage, sadness, bravery, honesty, and sisterly support I see in so many of these comments. Some of these stories are breaking my heart, but they are so important to share. Some of the stories are making me say “You go girl!!” and they are equally important to share. For anyone who feels they might be alone, I hope you see that you’re not. If you need help dealing with cesarean trauma, ICAN is here to help. Find a chapter in your area and they can offer a healing hand: http://www.ican-online.org
If you need help dealing with birth trauma unrelated to a cesarean (or even related) there is also a wonderful site called Solace for Mothers that can help: http://www.solaceformothers.org
For those of you who’ve directed questions and comments at Mominatrix, I hope she answers you. If I can take the liberty, I can only say that I don’t think she believed me when I told her those statements could hurt a large number of women. I don’t believe she has ever witnessed the type of devastation I’ve seen from bad birth experiences, and I can only hope that your comments have given her a small view into this dark world where flippant remarks not only lack humor, but they can also be intensely hurtful. She’s a smart girl, and I know she’s in the business of helping mothers, so I will be surprised if she doesn’t learn a little something from all your stories.
Having said all that, her book has already been printed, and those statements are there to stay. How she addresses the concern over those statements is up to her, but on behalf of all the women hurt by cesareans, I’m crossing my fingers.
TheFeministBreeder´s last blog ..Mominatrix Says: “Consider yourself lucky, you c-section bitches.”
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This was very well written. I can’t help but laugh at the idiots who think your vagina is going to be ruined by giving birth. Hello, it’s MADE TO OPEN UP!!! Would you look at a man’s limp penis and say, “There’s no way that thing could ever get any bigger, and if it did it would surely be ruined!” Uhm, no. So why this ignorance about vaginas? Just to add, I actually got TIGHTER after I healed.
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@Leah- duh! brilliant point!!!!!
@AllisonO – I just wanted to give you a little boost of encouragement. I know for me the sexual fulfillment I received after two vaginal births did not come at 6 months postpartum! I think at that point I was still freaking out about how much work it was to be a mom and being exhausted and was feeling really touched out to let my husband near me too often.
It came after fully adjusting to motherhood, feeling like I had my life back, feeling like my old self, but with a new dimension of womanhood. Also, the intimacy that grew from learning to parent with my husband definitely played a role. It wasn’t just boy-girl hot sex….it was deep, holy crap we’re on this super deep journey together kind of sex. It was a journey.
Long story short…..hang in there and go easy on your self!
hillary´s last blog ..flowers13: @paganmama How do you purchase yours in the winter?
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@flowers13 – I totally agree that being “touched out” can really ruin a libido. I’m SO GLAD you brought up that point. There’s nothing like a day or two vacation from baby (and maybe a bottle of lube accompanied by a stack of porn) to restart a sex life. The husband and I were on quite a drought, then we sent the kids to his moms for two days over New Years, ate dinner out (no pun intended!) and managed to have sex 3 times in the first 24 hours of 2010. We’re only 2 weeks in, and I can say things are definitely looking UP (again, no pun intended you perverts!)
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I was thinking about this more last night. Anecdotally, I was wondering if it would be a large proportion of c section Moms reading this book, because of the negative self image that can come afterward. If I had just heard of the book without hearing this quote, it might be something I’d pick up. If so, I’d imagine that there will be more discussion like this coming on the blogosphere.
@Erin, good point about boob/vagina vanity being related to others and not ourselves. Even if physically these weren’t up to their former selves, the confidence boost of an empowering birth could certainly make up for that, even if that means for a particular woman that her c section was empowering. And if that one physical change would make a man less interested, I wouldn’t want to have babies with him anyway!
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Great post. I think the point that should be highlighted most, is why the book needed to include these statements to begin with. This just further perpetuates the “why go through all that BIRTH hassle, when I could just have a tidy little C/S” attitude that stems from a lack of sound information.
So, yeah, it’s funny. But I, too, don’t see why she had to go there in the first place.
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I completely agree with Erin on this. I get incredibly annoyed with all this talk of “reclaiming our bodies” when what it (usually) really means is “making ourselves fuckable to men again.” Does anyone in a loving, equitable relationship *really* worry about vaginal ‘tightness’? If your sex life would be ruined because you don’t feel like a virgin anymore (whatever that means — I refuse to believe that difficult penetration and bleeding are things men find a turn on unless they are sadists) then you might try giving your partner a reality check instead of yourself a body complex.
Mominatrix’s comments were not only degrading towards women and offensive towards c-section mothers, but also blatantly consumerist and supportive of the objectification of women ‘Sexy’ nursing bras? ‘Sexy’ nursing cushions?! Give me a fucking break — does EVERYTHING we do have to be based on our sex appeal? Jesus, a woman can’t even give birth to a baby without being immediately scolded for not being ‘sexy’ enough or ‘tight’ enough to please her man?
It’s enough to make me want to row a boat to a desert island, with just an Andrea Dworkin book tucked under my hairy armpit and my flappy, floppy vagina and decidedly unsexy nursing bra on. ;-D
Noble Savage´s last blog ..Wanted: an end to rape
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“Quite frankly, women who have not had a vaginal birth will probably not experience as much of a change as those who have shot a baby or two out of their vag. Consider yourselves lucky, you c-section bitches.”
Lucky in what way?
Really, do many women who have undergone cesarean sections consider major abdominal surgery – be it by choice, or at the end of a long hard labor, or an emergency – to be lucky? Perhaps in the scenario of “I sure am lucky that c-sections exist in the 21st century, because if not, I would have died” – but frankly, the number of women who truly need c-sections to save their lives is very slim, so the statement of luck really doesn’t stand. The vast majority of c-sections done nowadays are not necessary. To bill them as lucky, to suggest they improve sex life is irresponsible and disturbing.
A c-section is an unnatural way to birth – it should be for true emergencies only, not as an equally viable alternative to vaginal birth. That is because c-section carries increased risk of infection. Requires many medications which can pass through to baby. Requires a catheter (more infection possibility) and spinal block or epidural (more drugs, more infection possibility, long term side effects like loss of feeling or itching, or worse potentially devistating side effects like paralysis). C-sections cause scarring internally & externally – some of which lead to long-term problems like painful adhesions or loss of feeling. C-sections can interfere with newborn bonding & breastfeeding because typically babies are immediately removed from their mothers and often given supplements instead of immediately being put on mothers chest with the ability to latch. C-sections cause scarring, reduced ability to birth vaginally in the future, less ability to have medical assistance with future births – like an ECV or induction (both of these procedures after a previous c-section increase the likelyhood of uterine rupture), increased risk of future placenta complecations like previa, accreta, or abruption, increases the risk to baby of breathing problems, increases the propensity towards future preterm births. C-sections require longer hospital stays for mother & baby, and increases likelihood of being rehospitalized. C-sections also increase the risk for emotional issues in the mother like post partum depression and negative feelings surrounding birth.
In short, when you get a c-section, you are CUTTING INTO YOUR REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM. It doesn’t come without cost. And it isn’t lucky.
The fact is that c-section should not be an equally available alternative to vaginal birth. Because it isn’t the same. It carries far more risk to both mother and baby. It needs to be reserved for emergency uses only. To make light of it, to suggest it as a good choice, is sickening. Particularly coming from a woman. And one who has had natural births (who obviously understands the benefits of unmedicated natural birth).
Thank you for writing this article Gina, and for getting the word out there.
kelly´s last blog ..Getting Beyond Punishment
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As a woman who’s experienced 6 vaginal births, and one c/s I’d like to add my experiences to the mix.
My vaginal births before my c/s actually improved my sex life. Wow was that fun. My c/s left me with nerve damage and unable to feel the left side of my “vag”. Nothing quite like a palsied vagina to play with.
Fortunately for me my subsequent VBACs have helped in that arena.
From my hubby’s POV yeah – vaginal birth changes things down there – usually for the better. Tightness was never a problem until my c/s, when half my muscles went awol thanks to the nerve damage.
Oh and for the record, all of my babies have been “huge” 9, 10, and 11 pounders.
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Wow, Gina. Apparently you’re not the only one with strong feelings about the subject! First of all, kudos for listening to yourself and initiating the discussion when you felt the need. Second, kudos to Kristen the Mominatrix for being a Mominatrix, helping other moms enjoy sex more, and engaging here with her side of the story. I’m proud of you both. And I’m really proud of the women who shared their stories here, too. What’s evident is that the experience of pregnancy and birth is unique to each of us, and profoundly transformative for each of us. There can be no doubt that submitting our bodies to maternity affects our sexuality and our shared sexual experiences with our partners–whether for the better, or for the worse. The bottom line is we’re all changed. I think Kristen’s intent in the book is to acknowledge the change and help women embrace the change and reclaim their sexy selves post-partum. I share your feelings, Gina, that it would have been best to leave out the flip remarks. In the end, they end up hurting women who’ve experienced birth trauma, rather than bringing us together in our shared experience–though I’m sure that wasn’t the intent. In the future, I hope that we find more ways for women to have real, sensitive and supportive conversations about sexuality after pregnancy and birth. So I end my comments where I began: kudos to you both for opening the conversation and to all for participating.
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Wow…..I have been reading through these comments fighting back tears. My c-section has also impacted my sex life negatively. I was “lucky” enough to have been left with a hypertrophic scar. 17 months later it is still red, thick, raised, ugliness. I too feel like it makes me ugly and un-sexy. It is still painful and extremely sensitive to touch and sex in certain positions (e.g – hair rubbing against hair) is quite painful. (And waxing or shaving over the scar is not exactly an option!) Yes, a huge part of this is the emotional scar for sure. I admit I have been totally shocked by the impact it has had on me, both physically and emotionally, as I only imagined a vaginal birth could affect your sex life. It also amazes me, in my circle of friends I consider feminists, how many have said “at least your vagina isn’t messed up.” I empathize with the poster who said she is scared to have sex for fear of getting pregnant and going through the trauma again. My husband once made a comment during sex about not bothering with the condom and I broke down in tears as I could not stop picturing a bloody scalpel. Wow, sexy indeed. I hope one day I can have a VBAC and be truly “lucky” like the women whose sex lives have improved. That’s awesome.
Thanks Gina for bringing light to these issues! You rock.
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Gina, thank you so much for your very insightful critique of this book, and thank you to all the mothers who shared their realities about C-sections and VBACs. I (sadly) meet women through my business who have been led to believe that natural vaginal birthing ruins your body & sex life. Having had two natural births myself, I can only reassure them from my own experience that nothing is ruined, and point them towards books and magazine articles on natural birthing. I will be giving them this link from now on. I think it’s a powerful thing to see how many women spontaneously responded with their own (real) horror stories about C-sections and their aftermath. THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
Sarah Kaplan
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My husband is an absolute sex fiend fanatic, and has had absolutely NO issues what so ever with my post-9.5lb delivery vagina. I am totally offended by the comments and “info” in this book. Hopefully NO one reads it or takes it the least bit seriously.
Hollie Wallace´s last blog ..Books I Am Somewhere In The Middle Of Reading
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Yeah…good thing I’ve only had c-sections and saved my vagina. Too bad my third one killed my clit for *6 months*. I’m talking no sensation – none at all. Sex was SOOOO much fun.
That same section also numbed significant sections of my pelvis and abdomen. I still can’t feel my bladder properly (4.5 years out), and will think I have to pee NOW, when I don’t have to pee at all, and be totally unaware that I have to when I’m about to burst. Sexual sensation is still iffy – too many damaged nerves. Sometimes, things feel great – maybe even better than before, and sometimes, they don’t feel like…anything.
C-sections almost completely destroyed my sex life, and I can’t do a damned thing about it. I may yet “lose my vag”, because I also can’t do kegels, because I can’t feel them. Yay for c-sections. They’re a woman’s best friend.
Gag. Choke. Puke.
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Mominatrix is Talking about sex after c-sections this morning on her podcast 10:30am EST http://bit.ly/Etpo9 – if you left one of the bazillion comments here, you may want to listen in.
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I’m sorry to say her radio show this morning was a further justification of the things she said in her book, and she threw in the “get over it” and “all that matters is a healthy baby” language as well. Highly disappointing. She learned nothing from any of you.
But other women will – so thanks again for sharing your stories.
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Gina
I read Kristen’s book and I kind of think you’re missing the point. At no point does Kristen say, “Have a c-section to save your vagina.” Nor does she say, “Epidurals are the only thing you should be concerned about when having babies.” It’s a sex book, you got that right? It’s full of tips and tricks and ideas about having sex while your pregnant and after.
I had an epidural and a c-section. Do I hope to do it again differently the next time? Sure. But the c-section saved my babies life. And if, and when, I get pregnant again, I’m going to read some of the books that you suggested because I would like to go naturally. And after I have the baby, I’ll go back to Kristen’s book for the tips about sex because, as I’ve said, it’s a sex book. Not a pregnancy book.
Karen Chatters´s last blog ..The skin I’m in
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@Karen – first of all, it’s an ADVICE book – it says so in the title, you got that, right? Second of all, the entire first chapter is geared toward pregnant women – pregnant women who are new moms, who don’t realize that she doesn’t know what she’s talking about with either an epidural or a cesarean because she’s had neither, and think she’s just one more author touting the benefits of both.
If you you’ve read the previous 100+ comments, I was not the only mom (and won’t be) who “missed her point.” Those statements didn’t need to be there. The book – and women – could have done without them.
TheFeministBreeder´s last blog ..My First Radio Show: A Success
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I didn’t hear the podcast, as I only just read that there was one! However, I’m confused. If we’re all supposed to just get over it and *all* that matter is the baby, then why is anybody writing *anything* about sex after babies? Apparently, if our sex life sucks, it doesn’t matter, anyway. So, why read the book at all?
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I saw the title, and your first few sentences, and thought “I must read this book!”
Then I read on. How sad that someone feels this way about women in general, and our bodies.
My kids were 10lbs and 10.lbs 10oz. No c-sections, and my husband says my vagina gets better with each kid.
I chuckled to myself about the Michelle Duggar comment.
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I’ve had two births. The first one was to deliver my stillborn son at 39 weeks gestation. It was an induction, I labored for 6 hours, had an epidural near the end which took perfectly and allowed me to still use my legs and feel my contractions mildly, and only required 20 minutes of pushing. My second birth was to a healthy son, another induction because of my previous loss, but that induction didn’t go well. I labored for 28 hours. After about 25 hours I received an epidural that only took on one side of my body and then disappeared entirely, and my son’s heart rate started dropping when he entered the birth canal so I was forced to push him out in 3 pushes in order to save his life. Because of the (failed) epidural, I was of course laying on my back. Ask me which birth made me rethink bearing any more children. It wasn’t the first one.
In reality, the health of our children can have very little to do with the way we perceive our birth experiences. The death of my first child was undoubtedly a more all around life impacting, devastating experience, but the birth experience itself was not traumatizing. To say having a healthy child is all that matters, well that is demeaning to all women who have given birth with strength and bravery to a dead child, as well as to all women who have been harmed emotionally and physically during the birth of their healthy child.
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@Wren – I’m so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your experience here. I’m sure it will help a great many.
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Wow, it’s sad that there are so many women for whom womanhood, sex, pregnancy, and birth are distanced from their feelings to the point that they don’t even hold any personal value. Perhaps that is a defense mechanism against the depersonalizing nature of modern obstetrics and the cultural misogyny that persists in discouraging such important and healthy things as breastfeeding, genuine attachment and bonding between mothers and babies, etc in favor of the ultimate goals of materialism and passivity.
It’s as sad as teen girls out there who declare that sex is “no big deal” and see it as something casual and relatively meaningless. Is birth and motherhood also casual and relatively meaningless to them when they grow up?
Personally, I have had one cesarean of an 8 lb daughter, and a subsequent all-natural homebirth of a 10 lb son, and guess which one hurt worst and left me unable to enjoy sex, physically and emotionally, for quite a while? The induction/epidural/cesarean Blue Plate Special.
After birthing a 10 lb son through my vagina, I can say this: the pain of natural labor was far less than that of induced, the recovery time of natural birth was shorter, my bond with my baby far easier, and my vagina is just fine according to my husband and to me. Better in fact because I no longer have cause to suspect that I am somehow broken or incapable of birthing.
The idea that a woman’s vagina would lose its sexual value if it ever got used, is about the same as the idea that actually using your breasts will ruin them. Even if you married such a shallow jerk as think so (poor you!), are you willing to sell your children down the river and deny them their healthiest start in life, because you agree with the misogynist notion that your body is merely an object for male visual titillation, and therefore your vital functions are irrelevent?
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It’s been a very long discussion, of which I haven’t time to follow everything but I really think most people miss an important point. EPIDURALS FAIL, and it’s usually unpredicted and unexpected when they do. For that reason alone, I think unmedicated birth should be taught to every pregnant woman and her partner.
The one thing I have NOT experienced is a vaginal birth with a working epidural.
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Yeah, I’m late to weigh in- get to know me : )
After having sex throughout my pregnancy (well, until about 30-32 weeks when I tried to ‘get some’ and was told ‘no… it’s too late now, it is dangerous’ *hehe* cute boys!) I had a c-section and came home terribly traumatized. I couldn’t look at myself for a while- I accidentally saw my staples in the hospital. I was so disgusted. My doctor told me upon my exam before leaving that I had, ‘No tummy at all…’. She should have taken a picture to put up in her office to show off her handiwork- she was right. My stomach was so flat it looked like they’d tucked it.
I felt awkward. I’d had a c-section and not only did I have no saggy skin, I had no weird line of ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ where my scar was. I looked great, but I hated my experience so much I hated that I looked great with a pretty little scar well under my bikini line.
Oh, did I mention I looked great? Because my man couldn’t keep his hands off of me, but the last thing I wanted was to be touched. I saw the operating lights every time I thought about beingn touched! I jumped a mile when he’d wrap his arms around me.
In the 3.5 months since, we’ve had sex twice- i feel ‘smaller’, and it’s miserable. I don’t feel pleasure like I used to.
To echo some other comments: I’m afraid of being touched also because I do not want to become pregnant again, I couldn’t feel my bladder for a time- the hospital staffs eyes became huge when I told them this but then they told me it was perfectly ‘normal’ that I’d urinated on the floor because I couldn’t feel the need (this has improved, but it was miserable always having to make sure I didn’t go more than 2 hours without sitting on a toilet and trying to relax so that if anything was there it could come out), I’ve continued to have cramps in my legs, random shooting pains in the scar area, it is somehow numb on the surface but feels raw underneath the skin (again, that is perfectly normal, I’m assured)
At the end of the day I’m sure most men would prefer sex with the women they love over not sex with the women they love, ‘loose’ ornot.
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Wren, I am so sorry for the loss of your first son. Your words are placed so perfectly, so eloquently, in such a way that only a mother who has endured all that you have could put it and have it come out just right.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
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I just wanted to take the time to say, “Thank you.” We’ve got to stand up for each other and each woman’s experiences. Validation of the truama goes a very very long way towards healing.
Comments like the ones in this book only serve to further marginalize women and their experiences.
Again. Thank you.
Nichol (faedemere)´s last blog ..Where I’ve been
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EXCELLENT post!!! Very well written. I’ve book marked this for the next time someone questions why I want a home or birth center birth and insist the hospital is better.
Eco-Friendly and Frugal´s last blog ..The Green Baby Making Guide: Mind "PG"
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P.A. – Yes, the combination of numbness and rawness is very common. That doesn’t make it any easier to cope with, ime.
You said you’re 3.5 months out? The shooting pains in your scar, at least, will probably go away at some point. Mine have lasted anywhere from 2-3 months to about 8 months (after my second one – the Cadillac of maternity care…no labour…blech). Hopefully, the bladder numbness will improve. Mine did get a *little* better, as I couldn’t feel my bladder at all initially. The sensation I have now is sufficient (usually) to prevent any incontinence, at least. (I have very occasional bouts of stress incontinence, probably due to a combination of the weakened muscle – you know, the weakened muscle that having c-sections is supposed to eliminate – and not knowing that my bladder is as full as it is.)
*HUGS*
Wishing you a full recovery.
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Great points you brought up. Women are too casually giving over their reproductive rights to stubborn doctors who want to save the day. I had a Cesarean also AFTER my episiotomy and AFTER pushing for three hours using the squat bar. So tell me again how easy my C-section was?!
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i am a 27 year old mother of 5 all of my BOYS are 6,5,4,3 and 2 months(belive it or not) i weigh 145 an i am 5″7 my husband says that my vagina feels like i have never had a baby.When giving birth to my fourth child, the doctor asked if this was my first baby,so i agree with jill.I have had one c-sec,with my third, natural was better for me, the healing process is alot and the postpardum did not effect me as much.Take it from me,my sex life is great we have benn together for 10 years if thats not p**sy whipped,i don’t know what is.
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Great post. So true on so many levels, but I like your Michelle Duggar comment.
A Mama’s Blog- Heather´s last blog ..I’m a Pigsty Expert
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That’s sad to hear, because I was thinking of getting this book. Now I see that it would probably make me feel LESS sexy. You know, what with my stretched out, irreparable vag and all. (Which my husband likes just fine.) I’d hoped it would have on-topic advice that would bring moms together and make them feel better about themselves. Why was it even necessary to open the birth choice can of worms in a book like this?
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I have had 3 c-sections. Yeah, I wasn’t very informed. Anyway, sex felt different for me – even though all of my sections were planned and I never actually went into labor – after each baby. My youngest is 16 months and my body is finally started to feel normal again. I think how you feel about your body after birth has nothing to do with what type of delivery you had and everything to do with the actual experience, your body, your partner and your feelings about sex before you gave birth.
Jerseygirl89´s last blog ..And I Thought I Was A Control Freak
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After reading that I have no intention of ever picking up that book. It sounds very juvenile and very insensitive, not to mention just plain ignorant.
For what it’s worth, my husband informed me shortly after my third baby (2nd VBAC), that my “vag” is better than before.
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After giving birth to my four children, I feel more sexy than ever….Why? Because I am empowered! I can conceive, grow, birth, and nurse other humans into being! I love all my girly bits more than ever, stretch marks and all–what is more fun than toys that can do more than one trick!
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I had an emergency c-section and it took a YEAR for sex to be totally comfortable again. It was 4 months before it was really even very do-able. C-sections do not mean that you have no problems with sex after birth.
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THANK YOU! Women need to know that their bodies DO in fact work! Having a vaginal birth, naturally, is what we were “designed” to do. We don’t need to be numb, we don’t need to be helped…thousands of babies were born before epidurals and c-sections and those women could handle it. Some women think (and I believe Madonna was quoted some where saying) “I don’t want to be a martyr in the delivery room”…well I’m sorry if you aren’t willing to be a martyr for your child then I don’t believe you deserve to be a parent. Not that natural birth is martyrdom anyway. I delivered a 7 pound baby 100% naturally, now you might say “7 pounds is nothing”, but little did you know that her head circumference was in the 98 percentile…that means it was larger than 98% of other babies (a little over 15 inches to be exact). Did it hurt? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. Will I do it again? Yes, in about 5 months. Is my vagina ruined? No. Actually I find sex to be BETTER after I had my daughter. I am much more aware of every single millimeter of my “lady parts” and I feel everything much more intensely. Plus, my husband is still very satisfied. I am very troubled that new parents will spend hours doing research on what the safest crib/car seat etc. is, and yet they don’t even know the possible complications of medical interventions during labor.
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@Wren
“In reality, the health of our children can have very little to do with the way we perceive our birth experiences. The death of my first child was undoubtedly a more all around life impacting, devastating experience, but the birth experience itself was not traumatizing. To say having a healthy child is all that matters, well that is demeaning to all women who have given birth with strength and bravery to a dead child, as well as to all women who have been harmed emotionally and physically during the birth of their healthy child.”
Thank you for that. This is the most powerful and cogent reply I have seen to the dead baby card (besides “healthy babies need and deserve healthy mothers”). AMEN!
“m sorry for your loss and your birth trauma!
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Wow, I just found your blog… and I gotta say: I’m loving this.
As a teeny tiny woman who pushed out a 9.5 lber and has a *better* vagina for it… thank you. The vagina is a muscle, and like any muscle, it only gets better with regular use. The only time I ever noted any sort of change was when I had sex *nine days after my natural birth*. Yes – nine. (And by the way? It was awesome – don’t wait six weeks unless you have to, ladies. It’s bull!). I noticed a slight loss in friction. By 14 days in I was 100% back to normal. Birth has given me more control and awareness over my vaginal muscles, including PC muscles, and what does that equal? Better sex, better orgasms, better bladder control. Birth has literally made my sex life (and the sex life of most of the natural birthing moms I know) BETTER. Awesome.
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Huh – I don’t know what before birth vs after vag birth feels like for men, but I have read research and felt the effects myself on what the difference is for WOMEN.
Most women enjoy sex more and have better orgasms after caginal birth. So… Honestly? My vagina’s for ME. I’m totally NOT sacrificing my awesome orgasms OR the experience of giving birth naturally just because it would look prettier “virgin”. How it feels for the penetrating participant I believe has more to do with keeping up good musculature anyway…
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Personally, I’m over the ‘get over it’ sentiment. As a society (the West) we never EVER reflect properly on the happenings of life. We are not prepared for childbirth because we don’t have real focus or understanding of our bodies from the effing beginning. I, too, skipped the lamaze. Only now, afterward, can I see what a truly skilled breather can accomplish.
For myself, I labored 14 hours before going for the epidural and that’s only because I was induced. Inductions = OW. But I knew enough not to get it right away. My amniotic fluid was low at 38.5 weeks and Rowan wasn’t getting any bigger.
Lamaze is not useless, we just don’t know how to use it. We have pills and pain relievers for everything. We never weather a storm.
It’s not about avoiding the pain of life. It’s about embracing it, facing it and overcoming it so that you may emerge a better version of yourself. I’d like that idiot off the air and out of literature. I certainly will not buy her book.
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Here, here! To all you said. Birthing is the ultimate act of feminism. We need to reclaim it as our right and our power. It’s been in the hands of medical science for too long.
I recently bought Birthing From Within. While I liked most of the information, I disagree HEARTILY with their breastfeeding advice to give bottles at night so mom can rest.
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I’m with Toni, man. Now that I’ve pushed babies through there? I totally know what muscles to use when they’re wrapped around a meaty bit of beef, and my uterus fully understands its contractile role in orgasm. Couple that with hitting my mid-30s sexual peak, and you’ve got yourself entirely too much information on this biddy’s bitties.
foxy.kate´s last blog ..20% more love: To Wii or not to Wii?
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“Count yourself lucky, you c-section bitches” ?!!!
Seriously – WHY do so many women STILL believe that, as finely tuned as the human body is, we have shoddy crotches?!
I love what Ina May Gaskin has to say on this subject. Imagine having a flaccid penis in your hand and stretching it to the size it would be if erect. I mean… you don’t have to be male to empathise that that is gunna HURT! It will probably do damage. The poor guy’s winkle may never be the same again. Does it mean his equipment is defective? Umm, no. Only that his privates can achieve that size easily if the tissues are engorged. Women parts are no less competent, but our engorgement happens on the inside…. I wish Chase had educated herself on some basic anatomy before spouting this nonsense 
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I have a bad birthing experience. I had an epidural, the dr’s told me when to push, I had an episiotomy, and my vagina is damaged. I cannot feel anything during sex, and that was 7 yrs ago. I am going to have vaginal rejuvenation because its so bad. I do want more kids, but best believe, they will be born with no pain medication, and not with me lying flat on the bed with the doctors telling me when to push and I can’t even feel anything. Its disheartening what I am going through, being a woman and not being able to enjoy intercourse with my husband. It has put a strain on our relationship.
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The notion that normal birth damages the vagina is a dangerous myth that causes a huge amount of suffering in our culture. As you said, it’s the obstetric management of labor (and let’s not forget that many midwives practice obstetrics,) as well as conditions that interfere with the body’s ability to release hormones, that are the problem. The vagina is made to expand large enough to admit a baby’s head, and then shrink back to how it was before. Not without those hormones, though. In that way it’s just like sex. Hands up, all you women who think it’s a great idea to have sex without arousal. And yet we allow that exact thing during birth, and then when we get hurt we blame our bodies, as if female bodies are just made wrong. It’s absurd.
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