Wow. There is a world of acceptable and effective parenting between letting your kids act like animals in public and being mean like the no ice cream dad. Are y'all really that dense that you can't understand that? To this query "Have you ever been at your wit’s end in the checkout line at Target because you had to go there to buy toilet paper, and the children spent the entire trip trying to rip shit off the shelves, scream because you won’t buy them every colorful box they spotted in the store, and cry because you refuse to top them off with an Icee on the way out after their behavior almost drove you to drink Drano the middle of aisle 6?" I would say, no, I have not. I am really not sure how things get to this point with people and their kids. Maybe they have more of them than they can properly handle? Maybe they really aren't paying attention to the kids along the way and this is the kids acting out. But, it just does not happen to me, and yes, I do judge. KNOWING your children and knowing how to manage them is a skill parents should put more effort into cultivating. No, you can't completely control another human being but you sure can MANAGE them. Parents whose kids act like this are, simply put, bad managers and ought to find alternatives to bringing the kids out in situations that are stressful and embarrassing, if only for their own peace.

When I first saw the title of this post, I thought it was going to be something about people mangling written English, (not just in a minor misspellings or unimpressive semantics sort of way, but in a "I m 2 bz r kool dint evr lern how 2 use r tipe hole words" way), and how it's hard to take people seriously when they write like that.

This post has had me thinking about it and related topics all day, generally in a good way. I'll probably blog about my thoughts later. I would go so far as to say I appreciate almost all of your posts I've read. Ironically, I also think generally good things about most of what Dan at SDL writes.

I think you're right that alot of people (me included) make alot of unnecessary, unfair snap judgements. I also think that alot of people in our "there must be consequences!" society are, frankly, mean to their children.

In the post mentioned by SDL, I didn't get the impression it was the denial of ice cream, but the other behavior exhibited by the father that Dan was offended by. And if it really happened the way he said it did, I probably wouldn't have been thinking kind things about that father either.
Also, there lots of moments when I think someone else could do a better job with my kids - someone who has the same values and goals for children that I do, but who is exhausted, stressed by other situations, or just, for the moment, tired of my particular child's particular manifestation of "spirited."

I like the idea of offering help or at least a sentiment of solidarity to parents who seem to be struggling in public situations, but find they are often turned down, and as has been noted above, what to one person is an offer to assist or empathize is to another person nosy, insulting, condescending bitchiness. Of course, I'll still probably offer to help if I think there's a way I can.

I'm of the opinion that if you *try* to discipline your child and stop them from running amok, you're doing it right. It's the parents who don't try that bother me. Yes, children scream in the line at the grocery store. It happens. But having worked in the grocery store and seen parents expect the store employees to be the ones to tell their children "no" when the kid is on the verge of maiming himself or someone else, I've also seen parents who don't seem to care what their children are doing as long as it's not their problem.

The point is, there are all kinds of parents. Some are awesome and I want to spend time with them and their children. Some have methods of childrearing that are so at odds with my own that I'd rather not spend time with them.

I don't have any objection to a restaurant stating themselves to be a child free facility. It's their right. If I don't like it, then I have the right to vote with my feet.

It's just not so simple as "you're doing it wrong" or "everyone else needs to allow my children to be children." There's a time and a place for everything, but not everything should be at every time and every place.

I supposed I shouldn't be surprised, but I am actually shocked they would publish such a one-sided, hateful rant that seriously calls children "brats" on CNN. Great journalism. I like how the comments actually blame behavioral disorders and medication on lazy parenting. I'll just bet those parents will be happy to hear they only have to work harder to make it easier!

But I am right there with you. You absolutely cannot win. No doubt. Early on I realized how often people would stare at me to make sure I was going to buckle my child in if I put the groceries down before buckling him, or that I was there when I could see my child but the other person couldn't see me watching him. What I realized is that they weren't being helpful, b/c there was always anger in their eyes. It's not concern for the child. There is this assumption that mothers are doing it wrong and have to be checked on. People seem to assume the worst. Good parenting is invisible. That they don't notice. But any time they act like kids, watch out.

I thought I stopped caring but my third child is pretty intense (people? kids are different! get that in your head. some are harder than others) and I recently had a shitty experience where I was given dirty looks for the option A and also for option B. Literally could not win.

I have also worried that I was A) being unAP or judged for being mean or B) judged for not having my kids under robotic control. But worrying that people will think you are either lax or BREAKING YOUR CHILD (I hate SDL!!! he's an ass, and a sexist too) will only mess up your parenting and your instincts. Of course we know that how we treat them is more important than what stupid strangers think- even ones with the chance to rage on CNN.

OMG, SlackerInc, you've obviously missed the point of this blog post because you're too busy telling people how to make their kids work with a form of discipline that doesn't work for that kid, or making judgements on parenting based on things you've seen. You're no better than SDL and his rash judgement of a parent he saw for a few minutes in line at a store!

If we're going off of things we've only seen, I would say that you think everyone should follow your style of parenting, period. And that you think a parent isn't trying hard enough if they aren't following your own style. What works for *your family* is great, but trying to tell others what to do with their family is simply arrogant. That's what I took from this blog post. Because it is.

Case in point: I've been meeting with the same moms group every week for the last five years. Our oldest kids are all within a few months of each other in age, and each one of them responds to the same discipline in different ways. Why? Because they're *different people* from *different families* with *different temperaments*. Even in the same family there are different reactions to disciplines used because once again, they're all *different people*. Obviously you haven't had that problem, which is great, but it's not the reality for others.

How about instead of being a part of the problem (telling other parents how they're wrong because they're not doing exactly what you do), be a part of the solution, which is the support good parents need to do what is best for their own family, even if you don't agree with it?

Does it strike anyone else that there an awful lot of children who respond to no discipline, and that those of us who have things going wwell are just lucky? And here I thought parenting mattered. If you get what you get and how we parent doesn't matter... why are we trying?

I think we can all come to a happy medium here; people need to accept that toddlers often misbehave, no matter WHAT disciplinary tactics are/aren't being applied. In fact, I clearly remember hating shopping as a young child, and knowing that the worse I behaved, the sooner we'd go home. So people need to cut parents some slack, because we all need to take our kids out in public at times.

On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with certain restaurants banning kids if they feel that's not really the sort of place they're running. When I pay money to get a babysitter so my husband and I can have dinner out, why do I want to listen to someone else's whiny 2-year-old? We don't eat out at "family restaurants," we pick a place we should reasonably expect to be child-free by 7 PM. I'm talking about young children here; if you're there with your 10-year-old who knows how to behave, that's fine by me.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this!

"One commentor suggested that we don’t discipline our children because we’re afraid of looking mean in public.

She is totally right."

I think this is at the heart of this article. The author says he has mastered the look to control his children. Now you immediately assume he beats them. You are doing what you are afraid other are going to do to you.

Listen...

I think we need to stop seeing parent intervention as being mean but rather as simply parenting. We need to stop worrying about other mothers, or looking cool, and actually parent our kids.

Temper tantrums are like a hand grenade. Once the pin has been pulled, you gotta get them out of there. Then the child will learn tantrums won't get attention. Parents have to do this every time. I have 3 kids, it works. Yep, I am embarrassed when its happening, and yep, I've had to leave behind a dinner, or a cart full of groceries, but in the long run it is worth the effort. My older kids haven't had a tantrum or acted up in years and I'm working with my 2 year old now. Its a process. A learning opportunity.

Discipline and setting behavior boundaries are NOT BREAKING our kids, its FIXING them. Screw the guy behind you at Target if he doesn't get it!

There is no need for hitting, shouting, spanking, or swatting if you are CONSISTENT in your rules. Temper tantrums go home. No getting up at dinner or no dessert. No reward for naughty (albeit normal) behavior.

IWe are losing the ability to handle our own children. If someone thinks kids are going to be perfect - they are fools I tell you - but parents need to STOP trying to look cool and fun and start parenting their kids again. Who cares what someone else thinks, this is about socializing your kids. And mothers need to stop judging each other so that we can do our jobs with a little less stress.

(Mother of 2, 5, and 8 year olds)

Most of these comments reinforce for me the opinion that everyone would have been better off if the people who complained or passed judgement had simply said, "Is there anyone I can do to help?"

There used to be a time when most other mothers (older sisters, aunts, grandmas, etc.) would take it on themselves to lend a hand if a child was acting up, at least in the small towns where I lived as a child. I still do, because I remember very well what it was like when mine were small (the urge to say "My kids? Oh no, those aren't MY kids!"). Not only does that give a harrassed parent a break, but it may help the child realize that the parent isn't the only one who finds the behavior unacceptable. And a distraction offered by a stranger is often more effective anyway, because it's something different than the parent's usual response.

TV and air conditioning have helped isolate us from each other, by closing up our houses (so we stay inside instead of on the porch or in the yard where we can interact with each other) and focusing our attention on a make-believe world instead of the real one. Parenting is only one of the aspects of life that has suffered.

Hehe, opinions on parenting are like a**holes - everybody's got one. Even people like me, who do not have any kids (yet). And yes, there will always be someone who tells you you're doing it wrong.

The best thing about it? A strategy that may work like a charm with one child may be a disaster for the next child (from the same family). I think all you can do is try and see what works for you and your child, and hope that despite all the mistakes you're likely to make on the way, they will turn out great.

(My take on beating children - my parents used to beat me and my sisters, and miraculously, we've turned out pretty fine. The BF, on the other hand, who was beat by his a**hole grandfather... well, let's say I took a close look at how he handles our cats and our friends' kids before I decided to keep him and maybe even have children with him. I will not repeat that special mistake our (grand)parents made.)

I feel your pain.
What irks me about many people is that they just don't realize that children are people too. Just because they are short doesn't make them any less of a person.
When they want something that they can't have they can get angry and/or frustrated. Children, especially toddlers, don't always have the means of expressing themselves so they scream, throw stuff, sit on the floor and pout, etc. when they don't get their own way. They also get frustrated if they are unable to communicate what they are trying to communicate.
Great blog by the way.

I don't even care if they're happy or healthy. Alive and not in prison are my new standards. Love the post and love the clip.

Love this post.
I hate trying to eat out with the kids. My 6 month old isn't so bad yet, but my 2 1/2 yr old, well he just never stops. He jumps up and down on the booth while eating(when he decides to). I always look for a booth in a corner, hopefully with a window. That usually gives me a few extra minutes to possibly eat.
And the grocery store lately. . . He has just been incorrigible. I try to leave him with my husband whenever I can. Which makes me feel horribly guilty bc his brother, the 6 month old, goes everywhere with me bc he is breastfed.
SO most days I just sit home and play with the kids and make my husband run out bc I just can't bring myself to leave the house with them. . . :p

I parent the way I feel is important and really don't give a flyin... What other people think of it. I'm not out there to please a bunch of strangers- I'm out there trying to raise thoughtful, strong, self-confident, fulfilled daughters.

It is human nature to "judge". We are creatureswho need categories to make sense of the world.

I admit - I judge parents who threaten their kids (omg- the things I've heard in checkout lines), I absolutely judge parents who hit their kids, who ignore their kids...

My judgements are mine. Their parenting is theirs

We will reap what we sow

Ah, the joys and pains of an "information society". Used to, you only had to put up w/ the dirty looks of the small number of people you came in daily contact with. Now it's a free-for-all w/ the whole planet!!

Personally, I think my 3 yr old kiddo SHOULD be at least a little afraid of me. I am not averse to the OCCASIONAL swat on the bottom in response to something like running off in the parking lot. I would much rather her fear the sting of my hand on her bottom than her be hit by a car. I think that is good parenting. Sure, some other kids wouldn't need that occasional physical reminder, but it's been the only thing that will really get her attention sometimes.

Every child is different. Period. If your child doesn't fear you, who will they fear? Juvi/jail/prison IS a very real end point for kids who never learn how to respect boundaries. It's always a tight rope, and, as a good friend of mine says, you have to decide which way you are going to fail.

Yes! Thank you so much! Now I'll never have to have another discussion on my parenting skills with my (CHILDLESS!) older brother because I am sending him the link to this right now.

I recently had a 40-something woman scowl at me and tell me that I should control my children when they were a bit rammy at effing Chipotle. Yes, they were being loud... laughing.

Damn those laughing children, all their happiness and joy, it is so annoying and so disgusting, it totally ruins my meal that I purchased cafeteria-style in a "fast casual" restaurant that is 1/2 a step up from Burger King.

I have "the look." And you know what? That still doesn't work. Yes I love my kids with all my heart, but yeah, when they get in their moods, they are like little terrorists. I say that tongue in cheek, mind you. But it is true. If my 2 year old does what she does now when she's 16, I swear I'll call the cops on her! lol! And yes, getting sucker punched in the balls for not doing something your kid wants right then and there sucks big time.

AMAZING! AMAZING! AMAZING! You put in words what so many parents feel! Thank you Gina! Shared it! ;)

Although, I don't have children, I understand very well the concept of the "terrorist child" because I was one. From the age of 3 to 9 or so, I wreaked havoc---unprovoked tantrums, throwing and breaking things (usually the most expensive item on hand at the moment), cursing, etc. Both of my parents had the "look" and were not unfamiliar with the belt. No matter; both implicit and explicit threats of punishment had no effect and often exacerbated my behavior. My brothers, who were 1 and 2 years older, couldn't have been more different. Who knows why?

The upside to the story is that I eventually became a model student, valedictorian, then the only college graduate in my blue collar family and a well-adjusted, successful adult. There was no change in parenting methods, no miraculous conversion...it just happens. Hope this gives some relief to the mothers of terror-children out there!

fuck yes! exactly!

I agree with u. Enough said. Ps, the video was hilarious

Holy crap, that video is my life. :) Thank you for the post. I feel constantly judged if I let my son have too much freedom and judged if I grab his arm to restrain him from destroying a store display. We will never ever win.

This restaurant thing can go so many ways. One thing for sure- few will agree on it. As for the kids driving us to drink in the public eye, I must share this blog post with you. I had to read it twice because I was laughing so hard. It is totally MY LIFE but with more kids:

http://myeffingcookbook.blogspot.com/2011/06/grocery-store-drama.html

Well said. I am the mother of the 3 year old child who can go from sweetheart to terrorist in less than 10 seconds. I've gotten the all the comments and usually respond with "how very nice of you to MAKE FUN OF A CHILD" said loudly enough to embarrass the commenter.

Here's my issue. My part-time terrorist is a girl. And I have a really hard time telling her to be quiet. The feminist mom in me wants her to be loud, unafraid and to use her voice. I also want her to get angry and feel that she is allowed to get angry and show it. That there is a whole different standard of "well-behaved" expected for girls. Rambunctious boys" will be boys" but rambunctious girls, a threat to society.
Would love to hear your thoughts on this as a new parent to a girl.

Cheers!