October 7th, 2009
The Big, Hairy Vaccination Post and My Visit to GlaxoSmithKline
In case you’re just tuning in, GlaxoSmithKline invited TFB and some other (what they call) “Social Media Influencers” to their vaccination production facility in Marietta PA last week. They took care of our flights, meals, and hotel, and treated us with mucho respect as they gave us insight into their business. I know you’re wondering why they would do this, and that’s a valid question. I can imagine some people equating this to the “Nestle Family” blogger scandal, but the two are nothing alike and I’ll tell you why. We all went because it was educational, because it was a good opportunity to see some other bloggers and see how they felt about this issue, and because the general public never gets invited into these buildings so it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. They were not giving us free goodie bags filled with their products, and they are not splashing us around their advertising in an effort to use our brand to promote their brand — unlike the Nestle Corporation. I owe GlaxoSmithKline nothing for this trip — not even a nice review.
So why were we invited then? As I understand it, pharmaceutical companies are intensely regulated about what they can say to consumers, whereas the people who tend to argue against vaccinations are hardly regulated at all. Because of this, GSK wanted to bring in a few consumers (who happen to have a voice) to share the way GSK feels about the vaccination debate (in the most benign, can’t-get-sued way.). That’s my assessment of the situation. Their lawyers had their lips locked pretty tight, too. They would not allow them to mention the name of any product they make (so we had to deduce) and we were not allowed to take any pictures on the property (fair enough.)
They hosted us for a little over 4 hours, the first 2 hours being a presentation about the benefits of vaccinations. In this presentation, we were given information about how vaccinations are developed, manufactured, tested, and finally released to the public. We were also shown some graphic images of the effects of various diseases, and given statistics about the rates at which these diseases had been eradicated since the introduction of the vaccination. For example: in what they call the “Pre-Vaccination Era” there were an estimated 16,316 cases of Polio annually*. Since the introduction of vaccinations, 0 cases. I think we can all agree that’s a huge step forward for humanity, and given those kind of statistics it’s not hard to see why the employees of GSK are so proud of the vaccinations they develop and distribute.
But having said that, I couldn’t let those statistics go without asking some tough questions. I asked them if they had any data on hand to show the number of cases of Autism in the Pre-Vaccination Era vs. Today. They did not. I also asked them what they could tell me about Thimerosal and why it was still being used in some vaccinations given what some science suggests about it. They said that the manufacturers have removed Thimerosal from most vaccinations, but not because they believed any of the science that suggests it’s harmful. They say they removed it because of the public concern, and they’d rather not have people avoiding their vaccinations just because they think there’s something harmful in them. I don’t necessarily believe that, but it sounds like a fair enough answer. I also wanted to know what they thought of the health care professionals who are publicly condemning the new H1N1 shot, but GSK claimed no knowledge of such incidents. To be fair, I do think they were bound by legalities that prevented them from discussing the issue with me further.
The second 2 hours of the visit was the tour of the facility itself. If you’ve ever watch that show “How It’s Made” you’d think was pretty cool. To enter the packaging room, we had to dress head to toe in clean room clothes (<—we looked something like that) and it was quite amusing. This was the part where we were really bummed that we couldn’t take pictures of ourselves dressed in this garb. After watching the dozens of steps these little vials go through before they can be shipped, I can honestly say that GSK takes quality control with the utmost seriousness. They said over and over, public safety is their highest concern. I was actually very refreshing to see a team of people (scientists/pediatricians/professionals) taking such pride in their product, and showing such great concerned about the people who will ultimately be receiving these drugs.
That was the gist of those 4 hours, so let’s talk now about how I feel about the vaccination debate itself.
I rarely, if ever, bring up the topic of vaccinations on my blog. For starters, I don’t have much fiery passion about the them, and secondly, I’m just not as educated about debate as I am other debates. I can point you toward absolute science that proves unnecessary cesareans are dangerous, and that breastfeeding is the best way to feed baby. I don’t think there’s much to argue about there (although the uneducated masses sure find ways to).
But when it comes to vaccinations, there is a lot of science, and a lot of questions, and a lot of smart people cannot agree at all on which side to listen to. So many health professionals disagree with which vaccinations are truly necessary, and which may have adverse effects on a certain population. I can see both sides of the issue. I understand why we should vaccinate, and I understand why some people refuse to. Given that there is some room for debate in this area, I don’t feel comfortable making a judgment call on it. I do what I do and hope for the best.
I, personally, do believe that vaccinations have saved many lives and have completely eradicated some horrifying illnesses. I think even the most hardcore anti-vax’er would agree with that. And yes, it does scare me when I see an epidemic of people not vaccinating because I do think it is a public health issue. Some other family’s decision can have a direct impact on my family, and that’s concerning, to say the least. I will unabashedly say that I was quite upset 2 years ago when I was f
reshly pregnant with my second son, and there was a chicken pox outbreak at my first son’s daycare. Jonas had been vaccinated so I wasn’t worried about him coming down with it, but I WAS worried about him carrying it home. I never had chicken pox, and if I was infected that could have proved lethal for my unborn child. I was a hysterical mess trying to figure out what I could do to keep from catching it and keep my fetus safe. As it turned out, one of those millions of tests the doctor runs on you when you first show up pregnant is to test to see if you have immunity to the Varicella virus (because it is such a huge problem for pregnant women), and luckily the test showed I was safe. I must have been exposed at some point in my life without knowing and developed an immunity. My family tells the story of how I had chicken pox in my throat (but nowhere else) when I was a baby, but I never really believed it. However, the fact that I even had to worry about this potentially hurting my child made me very angry. People think of Chicken pox as being such a harmless little external rash, but it’s not so harmless if it severely cripples or kills an unborn child.
Having said all of that, I do not think that the lives saved are a free pass for pharmaceutical companies to do whatever they want. When I spoke with a friend about this (who has an Autistic son and therefore no longer vaccinates her children) she brought up a very good point. Pediatric health experts advise us to give only breastmilk and no other substance to a child less than 6 months of age. Furthermore, when we do introduce the pees and carrots, we are instructed to introduce one at a time for fear that there could be some life-threatening allergic reaction, and we need to know exactly which one caused it. Yet at the same time, some of the same experts advise pumping dozens of vaccinations (consisting of formaldehyde, egg protien, Thimerosal, monkey kidney tissue, and a myriad of other ingredients) into babies just an hour/a week/a month old? That seems counter-intuitive to me. But I’m no microbiologist. Most of us aren’t. Of course, that’s never prevented me from looking at evidence based information and making my own decision about something. I just wish the experts could get on the same page so we don’t all have to do their job for them.
From what I can gather about the debate, it’s not that anti-vax community loves Polio and want their children to have it. I’m pretty sure they realize what a devastating illness that is. I think that the main issue anti-vax’ers (or even just skeptical vax’ers) have is with the number of vaccinations, the timing of them, and the ingredients of them. If we can protect ourselves from plagues SAFELY — without causing autism, and without any adverse side effects — then we all win.… right?
I dunno, you tell me.
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I’m asking you all to pretty-please be respectful in your commenting, and don’t rag on me because I may or may not think any one thing about vaccinations. I’m just not in the mood this week and your comment will never see the light of day. But if you have something respectful, thoughtful, and/or informed to add to this discussion then I/we cannot wait to hear it. Comment away!
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The vax debate is a huge one. One that made me avoid my small town pediatrician, not because of anything anyone said, but the sighs, the hesitation, the sideways glances because I dared to suggest that perhaps it would be best if my son (who early had some behaviors that concerned me as possible autism indicators) maybe not get 6 shots in one day. So, I have dragged my feet, put my foot down, and decided that until they can show me that the vaccines are tested at all once and shown to be safe (they aren’t tested for inter-reactions) we’re going to slow way down.
I didn’t want to make something small far worse. He was vaccinated against the things that are deadly in infants. We’ll work out way into the rest. He’s not in daycare.
It is a highly emotional topic. I just wish vaccines were better studied as a group, rather than individual shots, and that we didn’t feel the need to load up these tiny bodies with heavy metals, extra chemicals and things they may not need. We should be testing immune systems for the level of antibodies present before administering boosters, and test the quality of the immune systems before giving six shots in one day to a three month old.
Awesome job there.
You know, you pretty much described me here: “I understand why we should vaccinate, and I understand why some people refuse to.” And I would consider myself a “skeptical vax’ers”. I went the delayed and (extremely) selective route with Lily, and did lots of research, and yet, with another child, I don’t even know if I would do the same thing again.
Thanks for asking some tough questions. I DO agree that this is different than the Nestle situation, and I have no doubt that many of the scientists who work there really do have the best of intentions. But when you brought up the polio vaccine, I couldn’t help thinking about how Jonas Salk refused to patent it, as he had no desire to profit from it himself:
Edward R. Murrow: Who owns the patent on this vaccine?
Jonas Salk: Well, the people, I would say. There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?
Can you picture the executives of GlaxoSmithKline saying such a thing?
Great post! I would consider myself a “skeptical vax’er” and it really was the number of vaccinations at one time that worried me. If my child gets 3 vaccines at once and has a reaction, how do we know which one it was? So we waited till she was 6 months, and started 1 at a time. She actually did have a reaction to a combination vax that I let my pediatrician talked me into. It was horrible! She high fevers that wouldn’t go down w/ Tylenol and led to her having a febrile seizure, it was awful. Obviously she hasn’t had that vax again but we are continuing with the others SLOWLY.
I’ve been struggling with this since I got pregnant with the Birdie. I still don’t have any answers and so I’m sitting on the fence. On one hand, I feel my life has been better having never had polio, tetanus, diptheria or rubella. On the other hand, I can’t figure out why they want my child to be vaccinated against diseases that she is unlikely to get (Hep B for one) or for those that aren’t particularly dangerous in this country (Rotavirus)I think we’re going to selectively vax as she gets older.
What a well written post. I chose to discontinue vaccinations for my first child, while I was pregnant with my second child. It wasn’t until that point in time that I thoroughly researched the issue. I had seen some issues with my son that could have been vaccine related, and so I decided to forgo them altogether. I have no problem with people who vaccinate, as long as they are educated about the whole thing. Like you, I made my decision and hope for the best.
It’s a really hard topic. On one hand you don’t want some outbreak, and to see a disease erradicated would be awesome. On the other hand, there are many risks with the shots themselves. One of my biggest hang-ups is how quickly some of these vaccines are pushed through. There are no guarantees, and they don’t know if some of them will last for a lifetime. So I’m concerned that some of the kids getting vaccines are going to get more severe forms of these illnesses when they are adults. I worry about what these shots will do to a babies immature immune system and their developing brains, but I am encouraging my own children (teens) to decide for themselves and decide whether they would like to go ahead and get them.
Your friend makes a fantastic point, I agree with that completely.
Don’t worry — no ragging on ya here!
I am not passionate about the vax issue either. I have had Mason vaccinated (and circumcised for that matter — which I totally regret and feel like a jackass — but thats another topic..) and I had Hannah vaccinated until her last appt, her 4 month appt, when I refused them. Can’t really explain why — just skeptical all of a sudden. It just didn’t feel.. right to have my daughter stuck with various needles and concoctions all in one day, all in one minute. I now plan on delaying both their vax’s until school.
I think it’s cool that you got to go — all expenses paid too. You must have felt all important and stuff.
The best thing to do about vaccines is research. Do the same research you have done for your breastfeeding/c-section knowledge. This is poison going directly into your child. Some of these vaccines are pointless. As a pro-life mom I am appalled that some vaccines contain ABORTED FETAL TISSUE. I have done the delayed and even not vaccinated all together my youngest. I have the waiver for my oldest children for school. As a matter of fact…speaking of vaccines, Gracie brought home a flu shot permission form for the school nurse to give the vaccine at school. I was almost thrown back because that is not exactly what I was expecting to find in her back pack. I proceeded to chunk it in the trash. I went and pulled some small info and posted it to my blog… http://thewackywhittons.blogspot.com/2009/10/flu-shot-and-h1n1-info-you-decide.html it answers some small questions regarding the Flu Shot and the H1N1 Shot.
We’re very similar in our understanding and stance on the issue. We do live in CHicago, a world city, so there’s more exposure to infectious diseases than other places. But I just know so many families with children who once spoke, then suddenly couldn’t. We’ve chosen to do a slower schedule, picking and choosing and only getting one vaccine at a time. We delay until they’re older — at 2 yrs old the immune system is fully developed so we feel more comfortable then. My problem is that I respect our family physician a lot and have a hard time holding all these facts in my head. He tells me we’re behind, so I say “ok, let’s get one” when I don’t even remember what I thought about that particular vaccination. It’s mind-numbingly confusing. For what it’s worth, people in the CHicago area can go to HomeFirst to receive single vaccines (not combined, like DTaP) that are guaranteed thimerisol free. It’s a good resource for those who have these same questions.
It sounds like a great opportunity that you were able to tour the facility & meet other bloggers as well. I had a natural home water birth with a midwife, breastfed, used homeopathic & naturopathic medicine and also co-sleep. It is late so I will not be posting a huge amount of information. Basically, after reading your entire blog I wanted to make sure the point gets made that just because you are vaccinated against a disease doesn’t mean you won’t get the disease. Also, you might want to google ‘chicken pox vaccination & shingles’. Here is one link to check out: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx#
I’m not as educated on vaccinations as I should be since they go into my daughter’s tiny little body. I will not be getting her the H1N1 vaccine because I just have my reservations about it. I got all of the other vaccinations when I was growing up and I trust that we wouldn’t get them if they did more bad than good.
What a well-written and cool-headed post about a topic where cool heads often don’t prevail.
I’m totally with you re: the benefits of vaccines (i.e. the elimination certain diseases) and re: the concerns about vaccines (esp. their components). And while many of my non-vaxxing friends are quick to point me toward anecdotal evidence about the harms of vaccines–and I don’t discount this, by the way–I am loathe to make such a major decision as *not vaccinating my children* based on anecdotal evidence and not on hard research.
Nonetheless, I’m actually one of those parents who is on the fence about the chicken pox vaccine and the flu shots. Because while being exposed to the varicella virus and getting the chicken pox most often gives one *lifetime* immunity, the vaccine itself only gives one immunity for an estimated 13–20 years. And this worries me *especially* for young girls who, despite the vaccine, may be at risk of getting the virus if/when they become pregnant years later after the effects of the vaccine have worn off.
As far as the flu shots go, while I have given them to the boys as infants, I’m not so sure anymore now that they are 16 mos. and 4. My dad, who used to be a family practice doc (who encouraged and attended VBACs in the 80s by the way! 
, tends to think that the long-term effects and immunities afforded to people who actually get the flu virus are preferable to the short-term effects and immunity of the flu shot. So while no one wants the flu, and while most people would love to prevent the 36,000 flu-related deaths each year, we should also keep in mind the “good things” that natural flu-immunities do for us.
Like everything, of course, it’s a matter of weighing the risks and the benefits. And for me, the benefits seem to outweigh the risks for most vaccines.
Sorry for the long-windedness! And thanks again for asking those great questions at GSK!
I just wanted to share our story about chicken pox, because I hear your fear & anger at the thinking that someone elses’ decision-making could potentially have put your family at risk. Wanted to give you some perspective from the other side.
My daughter (at the time, had just turned 3) and my son (at the time was 10 months) contracted chicken pox — in spite of my daughter having received the first (and at the time only — now I understand there are multiple boosters) chicken pox vaccine.
The “minor skin rash” was SEVERE, particularly on my daughter who has eczema. She had HUNDREDS of pox, all over her little body. Her infant brother, fortunately, was spared a severe case, and had only a couple dozen pox. They both were feverish, and ill for a week, then scabbed for several more. We couldn’t go anywhere; even outside for a walk in our neighborhood prompted stares of disapproval & fear, I kid you not.
We were treated as lepers & anyone I spoke with about my children having chicken pox acted like I’d brought the plague out into the world, was wily-nilly spreading it around, and many made sure to pipe up about how “that’s why I made sure MY children got the chicken pox vaccine”. Which again, I’ll say, for the record, and had to repeat ad nauseum at the time: my daughter already had received the chicken pox vaccine.
Our pediatrician even asked us NOT to bring the children in. Don’t bring your INFANT with this disease that no one has even regularly seen in years, that causes fever, lethargy, infection, scares people into their homes, into the doctors’ office. don’t be scared though, they’ll recover fine — just figure it out on your own & call us if it gets worse (could it possibly get worse than two absolutely miserable housebound children with no support because everyone is afraid of catching or spreading this HORRIBLE disease).
Fortunately, at the time, I was still working from home, so our nanny just stayed away for a week, then things returned mostly to normal (though, chicken pox scabs/scars can last for weeks — as do the looks & comments).
In retrospect, I am glad that my children had chicken pox naturally — that theyll never have to be vaccinated against it, that I won’t have to worry that my daughter’s potential future pregnancy might be in danger. I am glad they have lifetime immunity certainty now, because as rough as it was, we DID make it through.
We did learn that in spite of the vaccine, children still can get chicken pox. AND that chicken pox is contageous 2 days BEFORE you even see the FIRST pox. And they don’t even really look like chicken pox until a few days after they first develop anyhow. People react most strongly to seeing a child with chicken pox SCABS — which are no longer even actively contageous. So we were out spreading around CP before we even knew we had it. I never acted in a cavaleir manner, we never intended to contract chicken pox, and certainly didn’t intend to put anyone else in danger… but we certainly were judged to have done so. It was very frustrating.
I was waiting for this post. Since I have gotten to “know” you, this little voice in my head always says (thanks to Heather), “What would Gina do/say?”, and I value your opinions, knowledge, and tenacity to do research that I don’t have the brainpower or patience to do. Thank you for that–once again. I do have to wonder if it was a freudian slip that you typed “vile” instead of “vial”. 
)
One site I have found to be the most helpful was insidevaccines.com. It is not a crazy conspiracy site, it just gives a breakdown of the scientific studies on vaccination. That and Bob Sear’s The Vaccine Book. This decision is so hard and personal. No one wants to make the wrong decision when it comes to our children.
OK, this is a little off topic, but I am laughing at the image of you coming home with a goodie bag full of GlaxoSmithKline products. “Hey, kids, who wants some Advair? No one? How about flu vaccine?“
I continue to hope that both sides of the vaccine debate can be open and civil. Because I believe that most of us are sort of unsure, and what we really want is good information so that we can make an informed choice. The finger-pointing helps no one. I feel that you’ve been very balanced here, and I appreciate that.
I’m glad you went on the trip and survived. Thanks for asking the ‘tough’ questions. If you are interested in doing more research and haven’t run across this website already it’s on vaccination study and research: http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/
I think everyone is concerned about what they are putting in their children and this is a very tough subject with regards to that. We can only do what we believe is best for our children based on the information we have.
Thanks for your post.
I think you did a very good job at reporting the facts of what went down during your visit and why you were there. I don’t think anyone could rag on your for your decision to go there.
Gina, I really appreciate this post for a number of reasons. As a doula and childbirth educator, I get asked about vaccines CONSTANTLY– and I always tell them to research, vett their sources, talk to their doctors and decide for themselves. I am TERRIFIED of the conversation, so good for you for posting.
Second, I have yet to vaccinate Finn– stall tactics on my part, as the husband wants them all. Not to say that I think they’re evil or anything, but since there is so much info for either side, I figure I want to err on the side of caution and skip the whole thing. DH wants to err on the side of science and do them all…
I got him to agree to delay for a year, and now we’re going on 3. The timing here is impeccable, as we’re about to try to decide what to give and when. It honestly brings me comfort to know about what goes on ‘inside’ the factory, and their standards and concern for public safety. So many people really demonize big pharma, it just scares me even more to trust them.
Anyway, you just took a load off, and I appreciate it, and your candor.
“I do what I do and hope for the best.“
Some formula-feeding mothers use the same justification. Would you let that slide?
@Nik — that would be a ludicrous comparison because there are no dangers to breastfeeding, unlike vaccinations. The government has specifically created a Vaccination Injury Compensation Fund to help the families who are devastated by side-effects of vaccinations. Breastfeeding never needed a “compensation fund.” There are NO risks, ONLY benefits to it.
The studies that say all vaccines are safe are FUNDED by big pharma. They also have deep pockets and tons of lobbyist to make these vaccines required.
With the rate of required vaccines rising so are the diagnosed children with athsma, allergies, ADD, ADHD and autism. NJ has the highest amount of vaccines and also the highest rate of autism (1 in 4 boys!!). Coincidence?
When the companies take the poison out of vaccines and replace them with green alternatives (which will cost $$ so that is why they are not doing it) then i will vacc on schedule. Until then I refuse some (chicken pox, flu) and delay others.
Here is an article I wrote about the H1N1: http://parentingourkids.com/?p=270
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