Those “feminists” piss me off. I believe life is all about survival of the fittest, and well, you know what? Those “feminists” can go right ahead and keep NOT have children – hence not reproduce their obviously weak genes.
They are doing us a favor. Morons die off. The way it should be.

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Great points, sound argument. Thanks for making it. I hate that women seem almost hardwired to tear each other down.

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Anyone who calls herself a “feminist” and takes that stance…doesn’t really know what feminist means. Because she still thinks that “sufficient”=”what works for dudes” which is a profoundly stupid place to start. Considering that women are 51% of the population and 80% of women who make it to childbearing age, will, in fact, have at least one child.

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Things like this are why I’ve decided to opt out of the traditional workforce and find a new way of making a living.
I always like how when I’m arguing for better maternity leave some childless person, (excuse me, child-free) goes on about how mothers already have ample leave and they think they should be entitled to the same to pursue their “life’s goals.” I always tell them that their employers would likely love for them to take 12 weeks of unpaid leave.

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haaa haa. That last line made me chuckle out loud. Exactly.

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You should read the comments on this story, re: offering seats to uber-pregnant women on the NYC subway system:
http://gothamist.com/2009/08/30/pregnant_women_find_subway_seats_ha.php
“Take a cab. If you can’t afford a cab, you can’t afford a kid.” (Yeah, b/c my hour commute would run be about $30 each way and everyone with a kid can afford +$1200/mo. in travel costs vs. a $90 unlimited ride 30-day metro card.)
Or, “Pregnancy is not a disability. Women are no more frail than men. Quit whining and just deal with the discomfort.”
Or, “I will surrender my seat to the elderly, the handicapped, the tired, the stressed, the people who just look like they could use a seat, but I will be damned if I will get up because someone is pregnant. Enough with the child cult in this country.”
Yeah. I don’t know if any of those comments above are from women, but I’m sure at least some of the shitstorm over there is from the female readers.
I so <3 NYC.

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This is why I avoid reading comments on contentious topics posted to mainstream sites. They make me so spitting mad, and cause me to lose all faith in humanity.
I don’t see how someone can honestly claim to be a feminist and not support a woman’s reproductive and employment rights. I am pro-choice, but that means that I also believe you can choose to have a baby. It’s not feminism to only support one option and one way of being. If that means that I need to work and pump, or need to take maternity leave, or return to work while my partner cares for our child, so be it. I don’t understand why it’s any skin off of anyone else’s teeth.
As a society we have a responsibility to each other. That includes children, families, the elderly and so on. Really, why is that so hard to understand? Although maybe I just think this way because I’m Canadian and practically a socialist.

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Once a female coworker complained to me about all the leave parents “get to” take – “they get to leave work all the time for their kids” – I reminded her that those parents, including me, are using up their sick and vacation time to care for a barfy, chicken poxy or poopy mess or to take a child to the doctor and that we are not having fun. She gets to take her sick and vacation time to have a “personal day” to take a vacation or to see a late afternoon flick. I told her I don’t go on vacations so I’d have the hours for my child when I needed them and that when I do take time off I am expected to make up for the slack I created, no gimmes. It was an angle she hadn’t considered because all she saw was people leaving early or taking the day off and didn’t think beyond that. Hopefully I gave her something to think about.

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“I am pro-choice, but that means that I also believe you can choose to have a baby. It’s not feminism to only support one option and one way of being.”
Yes!
This is why I get so bent out of shape when people try to equate pro-choice with pro-abortion. No, I’m pro-choice. If you’d like to terminate, that’s your choice. If you’d like to carry the pregnancy to term, that’s also your choice. And a woman has the fundamental right to make the choice she thinks best for herself. And I will support her in that. THAT’s feminism.

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Oh hear, hear. Mind if I submit this for the feminist parenting carnival?

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Not at all! Please do.

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Magnificent. This is one of those times when, while reading something, you think “YES! That’s exactly what I’ve always felt about this, even though I’ve never found the right words!”. Applause, ovations, brava.

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I also wrote about this today (great minds?) and posted one so-called feminist’s words, “This ruling is correct. If women seek “special” treatment because they are pregnant, that IS sexist. This NOT feminism this is weak. Motherhood is a CHOICE not an illness they cannot control, and depending on the business other employees may have to compensate without monetary reward….
Blame the victim?! You are kidding right? Victim of what her job? Her boobs? You are crazy if you think she is a victim. I suppose you think you are one of those new feminists? Guess what victimology is NOT feminism.”
Because you’re only a feminist if you’ve had the same life experiences as her.
You know what’s most frustrating about these kind of “feminists”? They want us toignore the natural processes of our bodies, like breastfeeding, in the name of being equal with men in the workforce. Guess what. We’re not the same. Women will always take longer to pee, because we don’t get to stand without a mess to clean up. Women will always give birth (I freakin’ hope). Women will always have to use feminine hygiene products. That’s biology, people. And to say that we should ignore the natural process of our bodies to “be equal” is more anti-woman than feminist. Period. Hanna Rosin, are you listening?!
(Oh, here’s my bit of self-promotion!
http://blog.thenatureschild.com/2009/09/breast-pumping-at-work-youre-fired.html)

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“If you think you’re so smart, explain to me whose going to be wiping your ass at the nursing home…”
Please put some kind of warning before the next time you write something like that to save my keyboard from having cheap chardonnay spewed all over it. I’m going to be laughing about that all night.
Anyway, I always love the fearlessness in your posts, and this one is no exception. Keep up the good work.

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I think the guy who said “pregnant women feel entitled” showed his lack of class by immediately following it with noting that he pictures “the past of dirty kinky sex.” Sure, that’s how some of us got in the state, “babyhitler”, but I think your comment is hardly worth posting, kind sir.
We’ve just gotta know that some of the people who post outrageous, awful comments do so because either they have no soapbox of their own or because they just want someone, ANYone to hear their rants. Like the kids who do things for negative attention.
Not like we shouldn’t respond or be outraged by these morons. I wrote a feminist response to the whole totes/Isotoner issue too. What “feminists” think we should ignore the natural processes of our womanly bodies just to “be equal”? WTF kind of equality is that?!
psst…here’s my link: http://blog.thenatureschild.com/2009/09/breast-pumping-at-work-youre-fired.html (Because I’m an attention whore, too.)

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I’m never quite sure what the motivation is for these sorts of comments. A lot of times, it seems like anger over heteronormative society that is transferred to bitchiness toward hard-working mothers who just want some freakin’ EQUITY in the workplace! I mean, I can understand why many women feel like our culture and society seems to favor those who choose heterosexual marriage and reproduction. HOWEVER, this doesn’t mean that the *people* who make these choices should be punished for their choices!
And one more think: taking a “break” to use a breastpump isn’t exactly like relaxin’ with a cup of coffee and/or a cigarette! Sheesh…

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Exactly! I cannot tell you how much I dreaded my pumping “breaks” – well, I told everyone here for a full year. I gave that up the very second my son turned 1 — but the people who take smoke breaks are still smoking away!

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Haa haaa.. you should have warned me about the warning – that made me chuckle out loud too. Thanks.

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Ugh why do people treat moms like this? Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, has a mother. In fact, it is biologically impossible not to so why are both men and women acting this way? What about their mothers? Their mothers had to make sacrifices and suffer that absurd inequality in the workplace so that their children would grow up and make the world a better place. Apparently these naysayers didn’t get the memo. Hell, maybe they DON’T have mothers after all.

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Great post! Best one I’ve read so far on this story. I feel that moms have enough to worry about during breastfeeding without still having to worry about this.

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Totally Agree!
Have you seen that Simpson’s where there is this Child-free group that starts. Pretty funny episode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_vs._Singles,_Seniors,_Childless_Couples_and_Teens,_and_Gays
……..Ugg!

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I can’t tell you how many women I’ve offended by nursing in public. I’ve even had a young girl at a store (high school age) ask me what was so wrong with pumping and bringing a bottle of breastmilk with me to the store in case baby got hungry. Motherhood is not a proclaimed roll anymore. I place blame on some of the “old school feminists” that fought so hard to break free of the chains of motherhood to enter the work place and leave children at day care centers from 6 weeks on and use formula so they never have to be bothered with nursing. I’m not downing those choices, but I think a lot of women don’t see it as a choice, they see it as the only way. I’ve had too many women outright tell me they feel sorry for me that I HAVE to stay home with my daughter. Sorry to disappoint, but it was a choice my husband and I made because its what we thought was best for our daughter. An it hasn’t been easy, we live without much of what the world considers absolutely necessary. We only have 1 car, no cable, we don’t go out to eat, and so many more “sacrifices.” I want the days when raising a child was the best job for any one, male or female. I want the the days when motherhood is a badge of honor not a title of shame.

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There is always going to be a conflict for working mothers between our jobs and our kids. It’s different for working fathers because fathers don’t breastfeed. And, let’s face it, men just can’t replace women in the life of a child. There is something special, more important even, about mom than dad. People can deny that all they want, but every reasonable parent knows what I’m talking about.
So, society must either (A) accommodate working mothers, or else (B) mothers who are serious about their primary vocations as mothers will opt out of the work force. I have opted out of the work force. However, that option is not available to everyone. So, I guess I would argue for society changing to make life easier for working mothers. OTOH, I have to admit that does sound a little preening and self-centered. I mean, doesn’t everyone want society to change to fit their own circumstance? I can’t say that the work force has really missed my presence. Maybe the fair thing is just for me to stay at home and let the work force do whatever it wants. FeministBreeder seems to say this is a black and white issue and she is clearly right and entitled to have society change to accommodate her. I’m not so sure. I think this issue is gray (even though I would cast my vote with FeministBreeder to have society change). There is a difference between how I would vote and what I think I’m entitled to.

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So hold on – you just said “mothers who are serious about their primary vocations as mothers will opt out of the work force”. So you think that because I work, I’m not “serious” about being a mother?
Thank you. This is exactly the type of self-inflicted sexism I’m talking about. Either you’re a “good” mom and stay home with your kids, or you go to work and suck it up – you know… just like all the other people do, right? Like the handicapped people who get special stalls and ramps, right? I mean, we don’t need to “accommodate” them, do we? Hey, we all want society to change for us – you know, the way that blacks wanted the same bathrooms, and gays want to marry. I mean, society shouldn’t be obligated to change just because it’s being totally shitty and unfair – right?

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Interesting comments regarding this court ruling!
To add some perspective, the name “LaNisa” obviously tipped off the public that this is an African-American/Black mother, hence the vitriol in the Salon forums and non-empathetic nasty comments. Many commentators insist that she was most likely a “LAZY” employee taking advantage of the break-policy, and many comments posit that the employer probably just wanted to get rid of this “BAD” employee and used the lactation issue as an excuse. I think had the lactating-mom had a name such as “Emily” or “Rebecca”, there would have been more sympathy found among the online commentators.
Hopefully, Ohio will get a law on the books expressly outlining lactating women’s right to express-on-the-job.

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Interesting Crystal!!!!! Class and Race issue also, very true. “LaNisa” should know what is sterotypicaly expected of her and comply and just focus on sewing those gloves together!

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This attitude towards parenting doesn’t just affect moms, though. It also extends to fathers, in an expectation that they’ll be less involved as a parent that their female equivalent. Plenty of restaurants that have changing stations in women’s bathrooms don’t have them in the men’s. Some companies give shorter paternity than maternity leave. It’s infuriating.

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You are absolutely right about that. My husband gets SO annoyed when he goes to change the baby and there’s no changing station in the men’s bathroom. He’s like “what? Am I the only guy in the world who bothers to change his kid’s diaper???” It’s deplorable. There’s no way we’ll be equal until people start appreciating that fathers are parents too. If you keep expecting mothers to do it all, that’s how it will stay.

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What a fabulous commentary. As a new nursing/pumping mom, I’ve been facing a lot of this recently and can’t fathom the attitude of fellow females. There seems to be this pervasive attitude in both feminism and in some minority/multicultural circles that being different = bad. Biology, just like skin color, is an unchangeable fact. As such, we need to embrace our differences and say to hell with “normal” and patriarchal “equality.” I am lucky to have my own office, so I just shut my door when it’s pumping time. Cheers to you for writing such an eloquent post, and for helping prop up our society with some future social security payers.

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Hear, hear!
Oh, you should have heard my husband about a year ago. He called into work to say that he needed to take a sick day to stay home with a feverish baby, and his boss said, “Why can’t your wife do that?”

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I love this post.
There is an article by Jennifer Block that touches on this very issue. http://babble.com/The-Backlash-to-Breast-is-Best-Why-exactly-is-breastfeeding-under-attack/index.aspx

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